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Old 11-13-2009, 08:20 AM   #11
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Default Re: [Fantasy] Assassin Backstab?!

37 points: afflict heart attack +300%, melee -30%, +40% link with stab, not against enemies using an active defense -40%

i picked 40% for link since a stab isn't an innate attack and wouldn't have the normal 20% enhancement applied to it, so might as well handle both 20% here.
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Old 11-13-2009, 08:38 AM   #12
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Default Re: [Fantasy] Assassin Backstab?!

Winning a Stealth-vs.-Perception contest, striking with an impaling weapon into the vitals (that is, kidneys and that) with an All-Out Attack (Determinded) using an impaling weapon. Skill with it should be at least 15, to minimize chance of critical failiure (+4 from the All-Out Attack, -3 for the hit location). Skill with Stealth should be high enough (15+) to make victory likely.

Ah, and a bit of luck on the damage roll. Luck in any form is a good idea here.
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Old 11-13-2009, 12:02 PM   #13
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Default Re: [Fantasy] Assassin Backstab?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diogenes View Post
Ah, and a bit of luck on the damage roll. Luck in any form is a good idea here.
No point in not stacking the deck as much as possible, though...

Evaluate for 3 turns, for +3 to hit.
Telegraph the attack, for +4 to hit (opponent would get +2 to defenses, but because it's an attack from behind and he doesn't even know you're there anyways, he can't defend and the bonus becomes a moot point).

If you've got a base skill of 16, this provides +7, enough to counteract the penalty for a Brain hit while still reasonably minimizing your chances of a critical failure (not so good for your chances of a critical hit, but if you're looking for a guarenteed horrible ending, rather than gambling on Luck, ignore critical HITs for the moment).

If your swing damage is at all better than your thrust, use a swinging attack rather than a thrusting one - for brain hits, once differing DR types vs damage types are dealt with, damage type itself doesn't matter so go for the biggest amount of damage possible. Once you penetrate the skull, you're looking at x4 damage AND a Stun/knockdown check even if only one point penetrates. If you do a Major WOund (usually if you do 2 points of base damage it's enough to force a major wound) then the stun/knockdown check is at -10, and almost guarenteed to critically fail.

This is less of a back stab and more of a head-smashed-in, but it's hard to argue with results...
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Old 11-13-2009, 01:09 PM   #14
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Default Re: [Fantasy] Assassin Backstab?!

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Originally Posted by Bruno View Post
No point in not stacking the deck as much as possible, though...

Evaluate for 3 turns, for +3 to hit.
Telegraph the attack, for +4 to hit (opponent would get +2 to defenses, but because it's an attack from behind and he doesn't even know you're there anyways, he can't defend and the bonus becomes a moot point).
Doesn't stack.

Evaluate and Telegraphic Attack do not stack with each other. This is one of the many reasons Evaluate is rather useless, except as an, oddly, defensive maneuovre against a skilled opponent (since the reduction of Feint and Deceptive penalties to defence is equivalent to a straight up bonus to defence in that case, it's about as good as AoD).
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Old 11-13-2009, 04:56 PM   #15
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Default Re: [Fantasy] Assassin Backstab?!

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Originally Posted by Bruno View Post
If your swing damage is at all better than your thrust, use a swinging attack rather than a thrusting one - for brain hits, once differing DR types vs damage types are dealt with, damage type itself doesn't matter so go for the biggest amount of damage possible. Once you penetrate the skull, you're looking at x4 damage AND a Stun/knockdown check even if only one point penetrates. If you do a Major WOund (usually if you do 2 points of base damage it's enough to force a major wound) then the stun/knockdown check is at -10, and almost guarenteed to critically fail.
I thought the stun/ knockdown check for skull was always at -10, even if only one point (which multiplies to 4 no matter what weapon you use) gets past armor.

Sorry to nit-pick on this point, but my martial artist has been putting points into that technique and it looks like a fight is upcoming in our next session so I want to be sure I am reading it right. The check is HT at -10 and if they blow it they are stunned, but if they blow the roll by 10 or more they are knocked out completely?
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Old 11-13-2009, 05:19 PM   #16
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Default Re: [Fantasy] Assassin Backstab?!

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Originally Posted by Diogenes View Post
Winning a Stealth-vs.-Perception contest, striking with an impaling weapon into the vitals (that is, kidneys and that) with an All-Out Attack (Determinded) using an impaling weapon. Skill with it should be at least 15, to minimize chance of critical failiure (+4 from the All-Out Attack, -3 for the hit location). Skill with Stealth should be high enough (15+) to make victory likely.

Ah, and a bit of luck on the damage roll. Luck in any form is a good idea here.
Any assassin worth his salt should use a fine weapon (I woudl recommend a fine long dagger) and also have Targeted attack Vitals, chink in armour (vitals) and the same for neck probably.

So you take the 3 sec evaluate and then stab vitals with only a -1 to hit (assuming no armour).
Even with just skill 15 you roll against Skill:16. Using the AoA for + skill is a waste, you want +2 dam.
So even with the typical low Assassin ST of 11 (thrust 1d-1) you get: 1d+2 imp. Even with minimum damage of 3 you deal 9 dam. But most likely you will deal 15 dam or more.

You don't even really need the 3 sec of evaluate, as you would still have skill 14, and you don't need to buy extra Striking ST.
Now 15 dam might not be an "insta kill" but you don't need that in gurps to kill things. You force a major wound against vitals (even with the minimum 9 dam), thats HT-5, failure with 5 or more = unconcious. Normal failure = knockdown and stunning. A success is unlikely with -5 to HT.

Now the target is at your mercy, you can slice his throat or take a stab more at him or even capture him! You could also just leave him there, there is a good chance he will pass out winthin the next couple of minute and bleed to death (internal wound of that size are hard to first Aid (see Martial Arts for details on this).

You don't even need stealth or come from behind, just pretend to be a friend and make a Fast-draw attack and stab him from the front, that is still a surprise attack the victim doesn't see comming so he will still not have any defenses.

---
This assassin only costs 39 points! But he would probably want some stealth and disguise, acting, hold out and fast draw, and so on as well. Depending on how he does things.

Last edited by Maz; 11-13-2009 at 05:26 PM.
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Old 11-13-2009, 05:30 PM   #17
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Default Re: [Fantasy] Assassin Backstab?!

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If I were to create something advantageous for assassins when backstabbing someone, what would it look like, should I use skills or advantages? What I'm looking for is something that gives extra damage (and/or extra skill) when sneaking up from behind on people and attacking them.
The most advantageous combination for this is probably All-Out Attack (Strong) -- since you know they won't be hitting back; at least, not this turn -- for a Telegraphic Attack to the vitals -- since they won't see it coming.

That's a net +1 to hit, and assuming an impaling or piercing weapon, you're going to do +2 damage (or +1/die if better) and the injury is tripled after DR. Unless you built your assassin with low ST (in which case you built a poor assassin) or your foe is heavily armored, that's almost certainly a major wound to the vitals. This means a knockdown roll against HT-5, which will almost certainly stun him (setting you up for another easy hit) and is likely to actually drop him in one hit.

When facing a foe with no head armor, you can instead use All-Out Attack (Determined) and Telegraphic Attack for the same net +1 to hit the skull. You don't do any bonus damage, so I wouldn't recommend relying on this unless you're rolling at least 1d+2 damage for your weapon, because you have to overcome the skull's DR 2. If you do so, though, you get quadruple the injury modifier. If this causes a major wound (likely!), your foe's knockdown roll is at HT-10 (!), which is an almost certain knockout.

So no special perks, techniques, or any of that are really needed -- GURPS handles this pretty well as-is. Any extra traits are gravy on top.
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Old 11-13-2009, 07:25 PM   #18
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Default Re: [Fantasy] Assassin Backstab?!

I agree that you don't really need a special backstab ability for most GURPS characters.

Some things in the Imbuements PDF might be applicable. For example, one Imbuement Skill lets you inflict physical afflictions on opponents you hit (say Physical Stun, Paralysis, or Heart Attack). Just limit it to appropriate Imbuement Skills, and add another -20% "only while backstabbing" limitation.
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Old 11-13-2009, 09:43 PM   #19
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Default Re: [Fantasy] Assassin Backstab?!

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Originally Posted by Jasonft View Post
I thought the stun/ knockdown check for skull was always at -10, even if only one point (which multiplies to 4 no matter what weapon you use) gets past armor.

Sorry to nit-pick on this point, but my martial artist has been putting points into that technique and it looks like a fight is upcoming in our next session so I want to be sure I am reading it right. The check is HT at -10 and if they blow it they are stunned, but if they blow the roll by 10 or more they are knocked out completely?
Nope. See p 420 which is pretty straightforward.

Any hit to the skull that does enough damage to cause a shock penalty (HP/10 damage after the x4 modifier) forces the victim to roll HT against stun & knockdown. If the hit is also a major wound, the victim roll at -10. Any failure by 5+ causes the victim to fall unconscious instead of going into stun.

So if you hit Joe Genero, the HP 10 HT 10 everyman in the skull with your fist for 3 damage, his skull DR of 2 prevents all but 1 from going through. That point is quadrapuled and causes Shock, so Joe rolls versus HT. If he roll at 15+, he's unconscious. If you'd done 4 points on the initial hit for 8 points of damage after modifiers, he'd be rolling against a 0 and a roll of 5+ would cause him to fall unconscious.

On the other hand, if you try this trick on Joe Gigantic, the HP 50 HT15 giant, getting 1 point of damage past DR is not enough to cause a shock penalty, and while 2 points is enough to make him roll against Stun, he has no penalty to the roll. You need to do 26+ damage, or a base of 7 past DR, to take him down.
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Old 11-14-2009, 12:09 AM   #20
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Default Re: [Fantasy] Assassin Backstab?!

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Originally Posted by Maz View Post
Any assassin worth his salt should use a fine weapon (I woudl recommend a fine long dagger) and also have Targeted attack Vitals, chink in armour (vitals) and the same for neck probably.
Personally, I give Fine rondel daggers to my assassin NPCs. They're not that expensive, and with TA/Chinks in Armor/Vitals maxed, they end up rolling against skill-3 only. Add Telegraphic attack and Dirty Fightingx3 and even skill 12 assassins roll against 16. Oh, and any assassin worth his name will use reversed grip for the first strike.
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