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Old 11-12-2017, 07:19 AM   #11
malloyd
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Default Re: Defense bonus and ATR

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Originally Posted by Andreas View Post
Someone with ATR 4 can do that, yet he would be no better at defending than a normal person who takes All-Out Defense
He gets to do something else and *still* get the benefits of All-Out Defense, which certainly is an advantage over other people.

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(and that remains true if all he does is taking All-Out Defense)
That is a fair point. If he takes multiple turns of All-Out Defense he should be better at defending. But I think he already is even in the RAW - just take the Increased Defense option more than once and stack the +2 bonuses.
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Old 11-12-2017, 07:35 AM   #12
Andreas
 
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Default Re: Defense bonus and ATR

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Originally Posted by malloyd View Post
He gets to do something else and *still* get the benefits of All-Out Defense, which certainly is an advantage over other people.
He has advantages over a normal person taking All-Out Defense, but that advantage is not that he is better at the defending. They both have the same Dodge score. His advantage is just that he can do more things.

Quote:
That is a fair point. If he takes multiple turns of All-Out Defense he should be better at defending. But I think he already is even in the RAW - just take the Increased Defense option more than once and stack the +2 bonuses.
Letting them stack would not give a good result at higher levels of ATR. The difference in Dodge score between a normal person All-Out Defending and someone with ATR 1 All-Out Defending would be 2. However the difference between someone with ATR 1 and someone with ATR 3 would be 4. The difference between ATR 9 and ATR 19 would be 20.

In all those cases, one person is twice as fast as the other, so that is not really a reasonable result. It might give a too low Dodge bonus at low levels and would definitely give a too high bonus at really high levels of ATR.
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Old 11-12-2017, 08:21 AM   #13
munin
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Vermont, USA
Default Re: Defense bonus and ATR

I think the simplest would be to use the Time Spent scaling (p. B346): each doubling gives +1. Thus someone with ATR 1 could justifiably purchase DB +1, ATR 3 for DB +2, ATR 7 for DB +3, etc.
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Old 11-12-2017, 09:49 AM   #14
sir_pudding
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Default Re: Defense bonus and ATR

What about allowing a Power Dodge per level of ATR? You would then be able to add Speed Talent (or whatever).
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Old 11-12-2017, 10:27 AM   #15
Andreas
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Default Re: Defense bonus and ATR

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Originally Posted by munin View Post
I think the simplest would be to use the Time Spent scaling (p. B346): each doubling gives +1. Thus someone with ATR 1 could justifiably purchase DB +1, ATR 3 for DB +2, ATR 7 for DB +3, etc.
Each doubling only giving +1 would give unrealistically small bonuses though. ATR 31 would only give a bonus of 6, but relative to someone moving 32 times as fast, the attacks from normal people would seem extremely slow. That is less than one frame per second for normal video!

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Originally Posted by sir_pudding View Post
What about allowing a Power Dodge per level of ATR? You would then be able to add Speed Talent (or whatever).
Why just one per level of ATR? There is no limit to only one dodge per second for normal people.
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Old 11-12-2017, 10:55 AM   #16
Refplace
 
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Default Re: Defense bonus and ATR

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Why just one per level of ATR? There is no limit to only one dodge per second for normal people.
Actually Power Dodge would be once per Turn (See Powers p. 167)
No one may use more than one power defense per turn, however.

Combine with a Power Dodge working against some things a regular dodge would not, the difference in modifers and I think this is a pretty handy option that does not get too overpowered at higher levels.
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Old 11-12-2017, 11:00 AM   #17
sir_pudding
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Default Re: Defense bonus and ATR

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Originally Posted by Andreas View Post
Why just one per level of ATR?
You wanted a per level effect.
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There is no limit to only one dodge per second for normal people.
Power Dodge is limited to one per turn. I am expressly suggesting that each ATR turn gives one instead.
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Old 11-12-2017, 11:16 AM   #18
Andreas
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Default Re: Defense bonus and ATR

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Originally Posted by sir_pudding View Post
You wanted a per level effect.

Power Dodge is limited to one per turn. I am expressly suggesting that each ATR turn gives one instead.
What I wrote was that I wanted the size of the bonus to depend on the level of ATR. Not how often you can use it.
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Old 11-12-2017, 11:21 AM   #19
sir_pudding
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Default Re: Defense bonus and ATR

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What I wrote was that I wanted the size of the bonus to depend on the level of ATR. Not how often you can use it.
Sure, but I was suggesting a different, powerful, benefit than simply "more plusses".

What you want is just "You can buy Enhanced Dodge X for every Y level of ATR" or even "You must buy Enhance Dodge X for every Y level of ATR".
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Old 11-12-2017, 11:35 AM   #20
Clockwork_Virus
 
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Default Re: Defense bonus and ATR

At that point I might just say "if you have Altered Time Rate and Enhanced Time Sense, you may purchase [your Basic Speed rounded down] levels of Enhanced Dodge per level of Altered Time Rate".
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