Nets: the ultimate weapon?

[mr beer]

Specifically with super-strong victims hit by a net, it seems to me that the net should impede them to some kind of maximum based on it's HP/ST rating. So in the case of a ST 200 brick hit with a ST 20 rope net, he/she will just walk through it.

[Anthony]

I notice this is another subtle difference between Basic and DF. In DF, you can destroy a large net as a quick contest of ST (see Exploits p45) and it's not treated as Diffuse.

[tanksoldier]

. I'd suggest a house rule to correct this:

Correct what?

You can do 2 hp per second. You cut your way out of a 20 hp net in ten seconds.

I’m not seeing the problem.

[AlexanderHowl]

I think that nets should only be completely effective against targets of the same or lesser SM than the net. Against a target of one greater SM, the target should probably only need one action to remove the net and should get a +5 to their roll. Against a target of two or more greater SM, the target should probably ignore the net (an SM +0 large net should do nothing to a SM+3 car). If you want to capture a SM+3 car, you should probably use a SM+3 large net (which would weigh 245 lbs and should probably require a minimum ST 35).

[Michael Thayne]

Originally Posted by Anthony

I notice this is another subtle difference between Basic and DF. In DF, you can destroy a large net as a quick contest of ST (see Exploits p45) and it's not treated as Diffuse.

Huh, looking at the DFRPG version, I'd probably just use that if, say, players in a Monster Hunters game were foolish enough to try to capture a big bad in net. Much simpler than the Technical Grappling version (honestly not a fan of that system in general). Oddly, though, DFRPG still doesn't let you brute-force bolas.

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by tanksoldier

Correct what?

You can do 2 hp per second. You cut your way out of a 20 hp net in ten seconds.

I’m not seeing the problem.

People who are strong enough should be able to just rip nets apart, but then nets should not be treated as "diffuse" against people who strong enough to just tear one.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

People who are strong enough should be able to just rip nets apart, but then nets should not be treated as "diffuse" against people who strong enough to just tear one.

Nets shouldn't be treated as diffuse at all, at least against cuts. If you have a net with at least one point immobile, you can put a blade into it and cut away from that point and (assuming sufficient power) destroy the net in a single stroke.

[Tomsdad]

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

You can make more than one attack in a turn pretty easily, with a target that's not defending itself.

But there's probably problems with the Basic rule which offers no way to muscle through the net (you've netted an elephant. It is wearing the net like a hat, and cannot move except to try to get it off) or grab and tear it (even if you could tear a car in half)..

Not in Campaigns by RAW, its true.

However I think it would be reasonable to extrapolate a house rule from the point about Small nets being easier to escape from than large ones.

Say for example we assume a large net = a SM0 net, and a small net = a SM-1 net, we can give make that a +/-3 mod to escape for each SM difference between net and target. So a SM+3 elephant would have +9 to escape. I'd also be tempted to allow enough MoS on the roll to remove an escape action needed for the total 3 consecutive rolls. So maybe for every 3MoS to an escape roll you get an extra successful escape action to count for the 3 needed?

This will also mean you can have bigger nets against smaller creatures as well as needing bigger nets against bigger creatures.


But of course you can just use Technical Grappling, where you break free from an entangling net by removing CP based on Trained ST (or Escape). Which means big strong animals remove more CP than smaller weaker ones. As well as suffering less Stat penalties from any CP inflicted on them anyway due to "Bigger and Stronger", and therefore also having an easier to time on the stat based breaking free rolls.

Technical grappling also brings in "enveloping" which talks about relative size between target and net


(all in all I'd go with TG and not the house rule)


I do also think there's a problem, with the way diffuse results effect everyone down to 1 or 2 pts damage. Which IMO works fine for some forms of attack/damage but not others.

A SM human tears a Large net at a max 2HP damage, a SM10 titan does too even though that "large" net is to them proportionally more the kind of thing supermarkets pack fruit in. I guess maybe very large creatures attacks on a net would count as an area effect and get full damage against diffuse targets though!

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

The active defense does count for a lot more against a ranged attack that required you to ready and throw away a 20-pound weapon than against a melee attack that cost nothing but one turn of action...

Yep and the very fact that it is a 20lb weapon means that if you take into account even larger nets for larger targets in anyway at all, you're really not talking about regular missile attacks unless the net throwing is large as well.

Netting larger animals in RL tends to be a group effort!

[starslayer]

Originally Posted by Anthony

Nets shouldn't be treated as diffuse at all, at least against cuts. If you have a net with at least one point immobile, you can put a blade into it and cut away from that point and (assuming sufficient power) destroy the net in a single stroke.

No, you can't do it that way, unless the net is being restrained at all 4 corners by some sort of adjusting force (like say, really tight bungee cords) every time you cut one link the net will go slack and cutting further will mean catching it stretching it and then sawing at it, and you'll need to cut ten or so links to have enough space for a person to get free; If the net is over a person correctly there is no way to restrain it like that without getting out from under it in the normal 'takes a long time' method.

[Minuteman37]

You can also doable strike the net no?

So it's more like 5 seconds for a 20lb net, which realistically sounds reasonable.

Also

Diffuse: A target with Injury Tolerance (Diffuse) is even harder to damage! This includes swarms, air elementals, nets, etc. Impaling and piercing attacks (of any size) never do more than 1 HP of injury, regardless of penetrating damage! Other attacks can never do more than 2 HP of injury. Exception: Area-effect, cone, and explosion attacks cause normal injury.

I'd definitely consider Hercules flexing his godly muscles to break the net engulfing his body an area-effect attack.