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Old 05-16-2018, 12:32 PM   #1
Michael Thayne
 
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Default Nets: the ultimate weapon?

By chance, I took a look at the net rules yesterday, and noticed something I'd never noticed before: nets seem like an extremely effective way to level the playing field against otherwise very tough enemies–such as a knight with nigh-impenetrable plate armor, a demon lord, or even a super-brick. The root of the problem, I think, is that nets are diffuse, a 20-lb. Large net with 20+ HP (assuming HP is calculated as if it's Homogenous?) inherently takes 10+ attacks to cut through. Even a super-brick with 200+ ST using Super-Effort can't just break through in a turn under RAW as far as I can tell. In a Monster-Hunters game, this seems like it could allow clever net-using PCs to make a fight against an angel or demon lord much easier than they should be. Or am I missing something? Is there an optional rule somewhere that fixes this?
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Old 05-16-2018, 12:45 PM   #2
David Johnston2
 
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Default Re: Nets: the ultimate weapon?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Thayne View Post
By chance, I took a look at the net rules yesterday, and noticed something I'd never noticed before: nets seem like an extremely effective way to level the playing field against otherwise very tough enemies–such as a knight with nigh-impenetrable plate armor, a demon lord, or even a super-brick. The root of the problem, I think, is that nets are diffuse, a 20-lb. Large net with 20+ HP (assuming HP is calculated as if it's Homogenous?) inherently takes 10+ attacks to cut through. ?
What net rules? Any net rules that say nets are diffuse are wrong.
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Old 05-16-2018, 12:51 PM   #3
Kelly Pedersen
 
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Default Re: Nets: the ultimate weapon?

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Originally Posted by David Johnston2 View Post
What net rules? Any net rules that say nets are diffuse are wrong.
Nets, p. B411, "Use the Breaking a Weapon rules ... but treat a net as diffuse..."
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Old 05-16-2018, 12:49 PM   #4
Kelly Pedersen
 
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Default Re: Nets: the ultimate weapon?

You're right, nets do seem like they'd take a long time to cut your way free of, due to only being able to do 2 HP at a time with a cutting weapon.

I'd suggest a house rule to correct this: as a special All-Out Attack option, a character entangled in a net, or another trying to cut a friend free, can try a "long slash". This requires a weapon that does cutting damage. The weapon does normal damage (not capped at 2 HP) to the net.

An additional house rule that might also help with nets: For every 25% of its HP a net takes (round down), an entangled victim gets +1 on the rolls to escape it. So, victim entangled in a melee net, which has 14 HP by default, would get +1 to escape it for every 3 HP inflicted.
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Old 05-16-2018, 02:23 PM   #5
Refplace
 
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Default Re: Nets: the ultimate weapon?

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Originally Posted by Kelly Pedersen View Post
You're right, nets do seem like they'd take a long time to cut your way free of, due to only being able to do 2 HP at a time with a cutting weapon.

I'd suggest a house rule to correct this: as a special All-Out Attack option, a character entangled in a net, or another trying to cut a friend free, can try a "long slash". This requires a weapon that does cutting damage. The weapon does normal damage (not capped at 2 HP) to the net.

An additional house rule that might also help with nets: For every 25% of its HP a net takes (round down), an entangled victim gets +1 on the rolls to escape it. So, victim entangled in a melee net, which has 14 HP by default, would get +1 to escape it for every 3 HP inflicted.
Unless a net is stretched taught and flat it should be hard to cut apart.
And cutting someone out of a net without cutting them would seem to difficult to get that "long slash" you suggest.
3 successful DX-4 rolls (dont even have to be consecutive) seems reasonable. On the other hand, borrowing from Binding I could see a Contest of ST vs HP to break free.
That would be similar to how Technical Grappling handles it actually (The net applies Control Points which are countered by sufficient effective ST in an attack to break free.)
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Old 05-16-2018, 04:42 PM   #6
Michael Thayne
 
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Default Re: Nets: the ultimate weapon?

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Originally Posted by Refplace View Post
That would be similar to how Technical Grappling handles it actually (The net applies Control Points which are countered by sufficient effective ST in an attack to break free.)
Actually, glancing at the Technical Grappling rules, it looks like they basically resolve my issue directly? A super-strong character will be able to break free in 1 turn easily.
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Old 05-16-2018, 04:57 PM   #7
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Default Re: Nets: the ultimate weapon?

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Originally Posted by Michael Thayne View Post
Actually, glancing at the Technical Grappling rules, it looks like they basically resolve my issue directly? A super-strong character will be able to break free in 1 turn easily.
Yep, if your using Technical Grappling I dont think this is an issue at all.
What I posted was a simple extrapolation from TG back to Basic rules and I think its usable for those not wanting to use Technical Grappling.
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Old 05-16-2018, 06:09 PM   #8
mr beer
 
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Default Re: Nets: the ultimate weapon?

Specifically with super-strong victims hit by a net, it seems to me that the net should impede them to some kind of maximum based on it's HP/ST rating. So in the case of a ST 200 brick hit with a ST 20 rope net, he/she will just walk through it.
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Old 05-16-2018, 06:48 PM   #9
tanksoldier
 
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Default Re: Nets: the ultimate weapon?

Quote:
. I'd suggest a house rule to correct this:
Correct what?

You can do 2 hp per second. You cut your way out of a 20 hp net in ten seconds.

I’m not seeing the problem.
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Old 05-16-2018, 12:50 PM   #10
AlexanderHowl
 
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Default Re: Nets: the ultimate weapon?

Large nets have normal HP for their weight. They are ranged weapons though, with limited range, and do not deal damage or provide protection. They can also be dodged or parried without penalty because they are so large, meaning that you end up wasting a 20 lb weapon on an unsuccessful attack or a successful defense.

A classic combat using nets would involve a melee net in the off-hand and a spear in the dominant hand. On a successful net attack, the enemy cannot move or attack anything but the net, but they can defend without penalty. If you are going against an angel or demon lord, they probably have a parry of 16, meaning that the attack with probably not work in the first place. It is a tactic best used against animals and animal-like monsters.
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