Traveller and modern electronics

[warellis]

Hmm so it sounds like Traveller military ship armor is like this from the Aliens-verse setting in regards to ship armor?:

Forward of the fusion torus, the spaceframe is constructed of bonded alloy and composite spars which are resilient enough to withstand great accelerations, but sufficiently pliant to bend and flex during the stresses of atmospheric reentry.The hull cladding is for the most part a single, armored skin. This skin is heavier than that found on conventional space transports and consists of a laminated shell of insulators, alloy micrometeorite shielding, composite armor protection, and aerogel layers. Protection against kinetic kill weapons is (as with all space vessels) limited, but the aerogel layers can dissipate absorbed radiation doses of up to 180 Kilograys from directed energy weapons.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by warellis

Hmm so it sounds like Traveller military ship armor is like this from the Aliens-verse setting in regards to ship armor?:

Not really. It's generally much simpler. Merchant ships usually get by with c. 35mm of steel or titanium while a 500,000 dTon Tigress-class Battleship uses 3 meters of "Bonded superdense" a superscience produced metal with 2x the density of steel and 14x the protective qualities.

Also, I want to emphasize that Traveller armor isn't weak compared to physical impacts it's that KE missiles that accelerate at 10Gs for an hour will explode on impact like tactical nukes. Even that merchant ship's DR 100 will cause a .50 BMG with APHC ammo to bounce off without damage.

Traveller capital ships will also usually have a "nuclear damper" a superscience device that prevents the detonation of nuclear weapons within a certain radius of the ship.

[warellis]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

Not really. It's generally much simpler. Merchant ships usually get by with c. 35mm of steel or titanium while a 500,000 dTon Tigress-class Battleship uses 3 meters of "Bonded superdense" a superscience produced metal with 2x the density of steel and 14x the protective qualities.

Also, I want to emphasize that Traveller armor isn't weak compared to physical impacts it's that KE missiles that accelerate at 10Gs for an hour will explode on impact like tactical nukes. Even that merchant ship's DR 100 will cause a .50 BMG with APHC ammo to bounce off without damage.

Traveller capital ships will also usually have a "nuclear damper" a superscience device that prevents the detonation of nuclear weapons within a certain radius of the ship.

How do nuclewr dampers prevent nukes from detonating? What's the mechanism?

As for Bonded Superdense, it sounds like the material General Product hulls from Known Space are made of. Or at least the underlying mechanism seems to work similarly.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by warellis

How do nuclewr dampers prevent nukes from detonating? What's the mechanism?

As for Bonded Superdense, it sounds like the material General Product hulls from Known Space are made of. Or at least the underlying mechanism seems to work similarly.

(shrug) The nuclear damper projects a sort of energy field. From its' introduction in Book 4 it is stated that it has nodes and anti-nodes one of which makes fission fizzle and the other suppresses fusion. It does have to be properly focused on an incoming warhead but that's fairly easy. It can also stop radioactive decay from happening. Traveller militaries tend to carry nukes only for use on targets to small to carry a damper of too low tech.

Bonded superdense is a much more moderate sort of super-metal than the GP hull. It can be destroyed by things less than antimatter it's just 14x as difficult to do compared to steel.

Traveler ship propulsion is also moderate compared to other kinds of superscience. That Tigress-class does mass 8 million tons like an Honorverse super-dreadnaught but it only accelerates at 2 Gs rather than 500.

If I'm starting to confuse you, Traveller ships are traditionally measured in a unit that Gurps calls the "dTon" for "displacement" as it's a unit of volume. Mass is mostly ignored in Classic Traveller. This contrasts with the latest Gurps system called Spaceships which is based on mass and ignores volume. The out-of-print books for Gurps Traveler (based on Gurps 3e and its' Vehicles book) track both.

[warellis]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

(shrug) The nuclear damper projects a sort of energy field. From its' introduction in Book 4 it is stated that it has nodes and anti-nodes one of which makes fission fizzle and the other suppresses fusion. It does have to be properly focused on an incoming warhead but that's fairly easy. It can also stop radioactive decay from happening. Traveller militaries tend to carry nukes only for use on targets to small to carry a damper of too low tech.

Bonded superdense is a much more moderate sort of super-metal than the GP hull. It can be destroyed by things less than antimatter it's just 14x as difficult to do compared to steel.

Traveler ship propulsion is also moderate compared to other kinds of superscience. That Tigress-class does mass 8 million tons like an Honorverse super-dreadnaught but it only accelerates at 2 Gs rather than 500.

If I'm starting to confuse you, Traveller ships are traditionally measured in a unit that Gurps calls the "dTon" for "displacement" as it's a unit of volume. Mass is mostly ignored in Classic Traveller. This contrasts with the latest Gurps system called Spaceships which is based on mass and ignores volume. The out-of-print books for Gurps Traveler (based on Gurps 3e and its' Vehicles book) track both.

I forget but is the Tigress-class dreadnought the heaviest combatant of the Imperial Navy?

As for the dton, yeah I know about that. I don't understand why such a unit was used for Traveller. Is there an out-of-universe explanation?

[Mike Wightman]

The CT Tigress is 6g - if the GT has a lower acceleration than there is something wrong with the ship design system or conversion.

In answer to the question is there anything heavier - yes.

CT S9 states that there are bigger BBs than the Tigress but they are not stationed in the Spinward Marches.

[warellis]

Originally Posted by Mike Wightman

The CT Tigress is 6g - if the GT has a lower acceleration than there is something wrong with the ship design system or conversion.

In answer to the question is there anything heavier - yes.

CT S9 states that there are bigger BBs than the Tigress but they are not stationed in the Spinward Marches.

Any mention of what exactly those bigger BBs are? In GURPS Traveller or anywhere else?

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by warellis

As for the dton, yeah I know about that. I don't understand why such a unit was used for Traveller. Is there an out-of-universe explanation?

It's the Jump fuel. For liquid hydrogen the dTon and mass ton are the same thing and this makes the rule that ships require 10% of their tonnage per Jump number simple.

For other matters liquid hydrogen is a phenomenally low density item and oddities result.

[Mike Wightman]

The displacement ton is the volume 'displaced' by 1000kg of liquid hydrogen.

The displacement ton is a result of the scale chosen for mapping deckplans.

In CT 77 the starship ton was mass - 1000kg. But to map a ship the convenient fact that one ton of liquid hydrogen has a volume of 14 cubic metres meant that a deck plan that has extensive fuel tanks made the 14 cubic metre fit nicely.

A square 1.5m by 1.5 m, with a 'ceiling' height of 3m from deck to deck gives a volume of 6.75m - or nearly half a displacement ton (volume) of liquid hydrogen.

Using Imperial measurements such as in D&D and GURPS, squares were typically 5' square, 5x5 with a 'ceiling' of 10' gives a volume of 250 cubic feet, two such squares gives a volume of 500 cubic feet - the volume of 1 ton of liquid hydrogen is approximately 500 cubic feet.

So it just made sense for the displacement ton (14 cubic metres or 500 cubic feet) to become the standard size of a ship ton.

[warellis]

Traveller ships aren't that big length wise right?