GURPS Punk Guns?

[The Colonel]

Prowling through most of the published stats so far, most of the firearms written up seem to be the sort of weapons a PC might chose to use - functional pieces in sensible calibres.

However, I'm given to understand that most homicides in the US are performed with the sort of weapons that usually don't make the grade - tuppeny-hapenny pieces in low end calibres that can still kill. Are there stats anywhere for the sort of guns that might be found in the hands of low end hooligans and thugs? Would GURPS Punk Guns be a viable supplement?

Also, criminals aside (although presumably they must steal their weapons from the same pool) what weapons are common in civilian hands (especially in the US)?

[DouglasCole]

Originally Posted by The Colonel

Prowling through most of the published stats so far, most of the firearms written up seem to be the sort of weapons a PC might chose to use - functional pieces in sensible calibres.

However, I'm given to understand that most homicides in the US are performed with the sort of weapons that usually don't make the grade - tuppeny-hapenny pieces in low end calibres that can still kill. Are there stats anywhere for the sort of guns that might be found in the hands of low end hooligans and thugs? Would GURPS Punk Guns be a viable supplement?

Also, criminals aside (although presumably they must steal their weapons from the same pool) what weapons are common in civilian hands (especially in the US)?

Quick results, not sorted for accuracy, from Google search

Top 10 guns uses in crime in USA

Fifteen years old now, but here's some stats on Guns used in crime.

[DouglasCole]

Originally Posted by The Colonel

Prowling through most of the published stats so far, most of the firearms written up seem to be the sort of weapons a PC might chose to use - functional pieces in sensible calibres.

However, I'm given to understand that most homicides in the US are performed with the sort of weapons that usually don't make the grade - tuppeny-hapenny pieces in low end calibres that can still kill. Are there stats anywhere for the sort of guns that might be found in the hands of low end hooligans and thugs? Would GURPS Punk Guns be a viable supplement?

Also, criminals aside (although presumably they must steal their weapons from the same pool) what weapons are common in civilian hands (especially in the US)?

Worldwide best-selling handguns

Top 5 weapons in each category, according to GunBroker

Cheaper Than Dirt! is a US-based firearms and shooting supplies retailer, located in Fort Worth, Texas. They compiled a list of their top 10 selling firearms in 2014.

[Ulzgoroth]

For examples that are in the books, the Lorcin L-25 and Intratec TEC-9 stand out for relatively modern examples.

It's also probably good to watch for reference to copies. That won't usually give you really specific examples, but some such copies are likely to be various degrees of Cheap.

Pulp Guns gives some potentially useful expansion. While technically anything within its scope is going to be a bit out of date, guns that were mediocre to poor in the 1940s can continue to be mediocre to poor today...


I'd definitely buy a Pulp Guns/Adventure Guns type coverage of guns in the 80s-present era or some subset thereof, if one appeared.

[DouglasCole]

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

I'd definitely buy a Pulp Guns/Adventure Guns type coverage of guns in the 80s-present era or some subset thereof, if one appeared.

GURPS Street Guns? Hmm.

[safisher]

Originally Posted by DouglasCole

GURPS Street Guns? Hmm.

It would be an excellent Pyramid article.

[weby]

Originally Posted by safisher

It would be an excellent Pyramid article.

Indeed.

But really what is available "on the street" depends a lot on the country.

As example in Finland shotguns are very popular crime guns. The reason is the availability among people in general. Specially in two way too common circumstances:
*The most likely way to to be the target of gun crime in Finland: Be drinking in a group of above middle age men when someone makes someone else angry an a shotgun is then taken from the wall, ammo found and a shot fired, often hitting someone else than the intended target...though obviously missing totally a lot of the time.
*The easiest way to get a gun that cannot be traced to you as a criminal: Break into someones summer cottage in the fall when the cottages are empty. As way too many idiots take their guns to the cottage to go hunting from there and leave them there. The loot is thus shotguns and hunting rifles mostly and a shotgun is way more handy weapon than the mostly bolt lock hunting rifles...

As for guns that are traceable: All kinds of .22 (mostly target) pistols as getting a permit for a .22 is much easier than for a heavier non hunting gun. (Basically you need to show a reason for the permit and target shooting is acceptable reason if you can show you belong to a target shooting club.. hunting association membership for a hunting weapon and so on.)

[Rockwolf66]

Originally Posted by weby

Indeed.

But really what is available "on the street" depends a lot on the country.

As example in Finland shotguns are very popular crime guns. The reason is the availability among people in general. Specially in two way too common circumstances:
*The most likely way to to be the target of gun crime in Finland: Be drinking in a group of above middle age men when someone makes someone else angry an a shotgun is then taken from the wall, ammo found and a shot fired, often hitting someone else than the intended target...though obviously missing totally a lot of the time.
*The easiest way to get a gun that cannot be traced to you as a criminal: Break into someones summer cottage in the fall when the cottages are empty. As way too many idiots take their guns to the cottage to go hunting from there and leave them there. The loot is thus shotguns and hunting rifles mostly and a shotgun is way more handy weapon than the mostly bolt lock hunting rifles...

As for guns that are traceable: All kinds of .22 (mostly target) pistols as getting a permit for a .22 is much easier than for a heavier non hunting gun. (Basically you need to show a reason for the permit and target shooting is acceptable reason if you can show you belong to a target shooting club.. hunting association membership for a hunting weapon and so on.)

I am slowly working on a set of random tables for criminal weapons. I've been trying to use Dot Gov sources for the tables. Right now I am using a mixture of National data on weapons used by criminals and a mixture of yearly California data for firearms. With California they list things as Handgun/Rifle/Shotgun/ect. and then they break things down by caliber.

someday I should finish it and post it someplace.

[The Colonel]

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

For examples that are in the books, the Lorcin L-25 and Intratec TEC-9 stand out for relatively modern examples.

It's also probably good to watch for reference to copies. That won't usually give you really specific examples, but some such copies are likely to be various degrees of Cheap.

Pulp Guns gives some potentially useful expansion. While technically anything within its scope is going to be a bit out of date, guns that were mediocre to poor in the 1940s can continue to be mediocre to poor today...

I'd definitely buy a Pulp Guns/Adventure Guns type coverage of guns in the 80s-present era or some subset thereof, if one appeared.

What was the Lorcin in? That's a brand name I recognise as being a manufacturer of substandard pistols - and came up on that link DouglasCole presented. IIRC there's a video on YouTube somewhere of a chap holding a pink and chrome one between finger and thumb like something the cat gave him...

It would certainly be interesting to have official stats for some sub-par guns...

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by The Colonel

What was the Lorcin in? That's a brand name I recognise as being a manufacturer of substandard pistols - and came up on that link DouglasCole presented. IIRC there's a video on YouTube somewhere of a chap holding a pink and chrome one between finger and thumb like something the cat gave him...

It would certainly be interesting to have official stats for some sub-par guns...

That's in High Tech: stat-line in the table on p.101, blurb on p.102.