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Old 04-02-2014, 12:46 PM   #21
Christopher R. Rice
 
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Default Re: [RPM] "Path of Energy ends where others begin". Huh?

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Originally Posted by vicky_molokh View Post
I still don't quite where you draw the line like that. There's the Halt spell (RPM44), which uses Greater Destroy Energy alone to directly disrupt the momentum of a machine or creature, and that seems to be a case of directly affecting a target. What is ambience in this sense anyway?

Likewise, there's Remove Reflection, which provides very fine control of light on the surface of an object, but works by Path of Energy alone.

Lesser Strengthen Energy alone is used to boost the reception in radios.
You're not affecting the target so much as the momentum. Yes it affects the target in that you need Subject Weight, but it's not directly affecting the target - it's affecting his inertia. Ditto for Remove Reflection. Your affecting the target's energy - not him. That's all that line means.
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Old 04-02-2014, 01:00 PM   #22
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Default Re: [RPM] "Path of Energy ends where others begin". Huh?

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Originally Posted by vicky_molokh View Post
But you can also have electric energy without organic bodies. If you can completely stop a fire from burning with Lesser Destroy Energy (without using Path of Matter) by disrupting the flow of chemical energy. So how is it possible to disrupt the flow of chemical energy with Energy alone, but not of bioelectrical energy with Energy alone?
How come I can put out a fire by disrupting the flow of chemical energy, but can't disintegrate anything at all of the same volume just as easily by disrupting the exchange of energy that holds together the chemical bonding?

For that matter, how come I can put out a fire by squirting some halon into it but can't kill anything alive the same way?

At some point you are going to need to decide that differences *matter*. Barring constructing an entirely new version of physics, such that it will take years of study for gamers to even understand your magic system, even if you are enough of a genius to create one, those differences are going to look arbitrary. They can look pretty darn arbitrary even in physical law (why is silver a good conductor and lead a lousy one, even though most of their easily observable properties are pretty similar?).
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Old 04-02-2014, 01:07 PM   #23
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Default Re: [RPM] "Path of Energy ends where others begin". Huh?

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Originally Posted by malloyd View Post
How come I can put out a fire by disrupting the flow of chemical energy, but can't disintegrate anything at all of the same volume just as easily by disrupting the exchange of energy that holds together the chemical bonding?
You sort of can, though for some reason it is written up with Create:
Quote:
Originally Posted by RPM41
Destruction
Spell Effects: Greater Create Energy.
Inherent Modifiers: Damage, Internal Burning.
Greater Effects: 1 (×3).
This is typically cast as a charm. By breaking the atomic
bonds that hold a person or thing together, this ritual turns its
target (who must be within 15 yards and weigh 1.5 tons or less)
into a cloud of fine ash.
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Old 04-02-2014, 01:45 PM   #24
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Default Re: [RPM] "Path of Energy ends where others begin". Huh?

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Originally Posted by vicky_molokh View Post
You sort of can, though for some reason it is written up with Create:
Create actually makes a certain amount of sense, as the bonds that hold something together are actually low energy conformations (if they were high energy they'd decompose spontaneously). EDIT: which would suggest that after being made into 'ash' the victim might well burst into flame. Because the 'ash' is actually unstable de-structured matter, almost all of which is highly reactive with other parts of the ash, or the atmosphere.

I have no idea why Create Energy would be allowed to do that, though. That looks like a perfect example of a Destroy Body (or Destroy Matter) effect that Energy is intruding on in just the way it's not supposed to.
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Old 04-02-2014, 02:17 PM   #25
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Default Re: [RPM] "Path of Energy ends where others begin". Huh?

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Originally Posted by vicky_molokh View Post
And chemical energy is required for fire to function, i.e. Path of Matter.
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Originally Posted by Dwarf99 View Post
Chemical energy within the body so still Path of Body.
I just realized that I confused your misdirection of my statement. You attribute the change to Path of Matter that involves energy affecting matter, but why do you not attribute the same change to Path of Body for energy that is required for the body to operate?
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Old 04-02-2014, 02:28 PM   #26
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Default Re: [RPM] "Path of Energy ends where others begin". Huh?

The thing is that the Paths owe as much to a kind of averaged metaphysics as they do to actual modern physics, and the merging can produce some funny results. Path of Energy is used for fire because you're basically putting heat in directly, or removing it as the case may be, so you'd use Path of Energy to light wood on fire or make someone spontaneously combust. If you wanted to give someone a fatal fever, though, that would be a Path of Body effect. To create a block of ice around someone, use Path of Matter; to freeze flesh, use Path of Energy; to cause hypothermia or frostbite, you could probably use Body or Energy; Energy would cause the air around the target to get bitterly cold, and thus cause effects of said cold in the usual way, while Body could cause the effects of hypothermia or frostbite by acting directly on the body.
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Old 04-02-2014, 02:54 PM   #27
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Default Re: [RPM] "Path of Energy ends where others begin". Huh?

Vaguely renaissance physics, not modern, is how I keep it straight.
Or magico-babble, not technobabble.
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Old 04-02-2014, 03:04 PM   #28
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Default Re: [RPM] "Path of Energy ends where others begin". Huh?

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Vaguely renaissance physics, not modern, is how I keep it straight.
Or magico-babble, not technobabble.
That too; there's a lot of semi-Aristotelian physics built into a lot of flavors of metaphysics, so RPM has a weird hybrid of the two not dissimilar to that era.
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Old 04-02-2014, 03:23 PM   #29
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Default Re: [RPM] "Path of Energy ends where others begin". Huh?

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This phrasing is intended to prevent you from claiming you can do *anything at all* by manipulating energy.
Bingo. This, and nothing more, is the reason behind the stated limits on all Paths when it comes to entering another Path's domain.

"Energy" is such a broad term that this needed to be addressed explicitly. Otherwise, you'd get people casting mind control spells with Control Energy ("I'm controlling the neurons in his brain!"), gate spells with Transform Energy ("I'm altering tachyons so we can travel through time!"), speed-buffing spells with Strengthen Energy ("I'm enhancing how quickly his motor impulses travel!"), and so on.

Where exactly is that line drawn? That's up to the GM. But this warning/limit gives him ammunition to shut down rules lawyers who complain if he says spells like those above won't work.
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