Combar Hardsuit balance help

[TheGabbo]

Hi all!
I am a new GURPS player: me and my friends will begin our first adventure this week end.
My question is simple: I am the GM for this adventure (TL10), and one of the players asked me if he could buy a Combat Hardsuit (page 285, Basic Set). Is'nt this armor too powerful? I mean...just 10'000 (1/5 of the normal starting money) for a suit that makes you invincible against almost any normal weapon on TL10?
What should I do?

Thank you for the help, and excuse me for my bad english (I am from Italy:-)

[Langy]

The combat hardsuit is military-level gear. Are your PCs in the military? No? Then tell your player that he can't buy military-level toys like combat hardsuits, power armor, or missile launchers.

[AmesJainchill]

Originally Posted by TheGabbo

I mean...just 10'000 (1/5 of the normal starting money) for a suit that makes you invincible against almost any normal weapon on TL10?
What should I do?

Define "normal weapon"? HEMP gyrocs, and ETC Assault Carbines with APEP (11d (2) pi- ) or APDS ammo will wound against the torso armor of the Combat Hardsuit. If the enemy gets limb hits, those limbs are crippled.

I used just such weapons against a couple of my Star Wars players, and random hit location rolls dictated that one spend the rest of the fight with a crippled arm and leg, desperately manhandling her T-21 around to try and fight off the enemies...
It changed the tone of the fight, let me tell you. Well, until the other PCs in the armored scout speeder came along.

If you're not comfortable allowing the PCs access to military armor, don't.
If you don't want to escalate things to where the enemies need military weapons to hurt the PCs, then don't let the PCs have military armor.
It's pretty much that simple.

[nick012000]

Do you have Ultratech? You mentioned the Combat Hardsuit from the Basic Set, so it seems reasonable to ask.

[SuedodeuS]

I'm going to assume you only have Basic Set. Here are some TL10 weapons to consider.

Gauss PDW (B278): Although this isn't good enough to regularly get through the DR 75 torso armor, its average damage of 14(3) (meaning effectively 42 against armor) is enough to get through the DR 45 limb armor on a fairly regular basis, and a one-armed man isn't particularly imposing. Injury leaves a bit to be desired, but you might be able to make up for that with sheer volume of fire.

Gauss Rifle (B279): With average damage of 23(3) (69 vs armor), it can regularly punch through limb armor and has a decent chance of getting through the torso armor. It's also much better injury than the PDW.

Heavy Weapons (B281): Bringing in the big guns may be excessive, but a good many TL6+ Heavy Weapons (most notably the rocket launchers) are able to punch through even the torso armor on a regular basis.


Finally, make note of the helmet. With a mere DR 27 (total 29) for the skull, and DR 18 for the face/eyes, headshots are potentially lethal with some of the less powerful weapons, like the laser rifle or even some TL7+ weapons. In short, while the combat hardsuit is very good armor, it's not invincible. If you get Ultra-Tech (or indeed High-Tech), some of the additional weapons and projectile options will allow you to get through the armor on a more regular basis.

[TheGabbo]

Yes, you are right about the military-level thing ;-)
Military-level armor requires military-level weapons :-P
Just another question: when you use Rapid Fire, do the extra hits count as separate hits (so each hit gest reduced individually by the DR) or you have to sum them and only after reduce the total damage according to the DR?

PS: Yes, I also have Ultra-Tech. But I thought that indicating the pages on the Basic Set would be easyer to refer to for everybody ;-)

[SuedodeuS]

Originally Posted by TheGabbo

Yes, you are right about the military-level thing ;-)
Military-level armor requires military-level weapons :-P
Just another question: when you use Rapid Fire, do the extra hits count as separate hits (so each hit gest reduced individually by the DR) or you have to sum them and only after reduce the total damage according to the DR?

PS: Yes, I also have Ultra-Tech. But I thought that indicating the pages on the Basic Set would be easyer to refer to for everybody ;-)

Multiple hits are considered individually.

If you have UT, well, there's a whole other list of weapons. The Laser Rifle has a decent chance of punching through limb armor (and enjoys a superior injury modifier compared to the Gauss PDW), and most of the stationary lasers are good enough to get through even the torso armor. The (stationary) blaster cannon will rip through targets easily as well. ETC conventional firearms with good ammo like APEP/APHEX should be able to get through, and a good many Gauss weapons (most notably the portable railgun) will be able to punch through regularly. HEMP gyrocs (as mentioned earlier) are great, as are some of the man-portable heavy weapons. If all else fails, a thermobaric grenade results in a very bad day.

[Agemegos]

As a newcomer to GURPS you probably aren't familiar with the Legality Class or LC that is listed for weapons and armour and most equipment. According to the armour table on B. 285 combat hardsuit is LC 2. According to the key on B 507, "LC2" means "Restricted. Light assault weapons; silencers; surveillance technology (wiretaps etc.); armoured cars; burglars' tools (e.g. lockpicks); explosives, dangerous drugs." in short, your players' character might have a combat hardsuit on the same sort of basis that he might have a kilo of cocaine.

Look at the Control Ratings on B 506, and maybe announce to your players what the control rating of your setting is. Charge black market prices on illegal goods is PCs have them, and let them know that the police will come after PCs who reveal having such things.

Or say "You aren't going to start with any possessions below Legality Class 3."

[wordwizard]

Well, remember that Combat Hardsuits are heavy. 30 lbs. is probably going to add an encumbrance level, dropping Move and Dodge by 1. Also, who wants to wear this armor all the time? It's quite cumbersome so unless you have good Battlesuit skill, all DX-based skills are lowered. Also, at TL 10, lasers are available, and you use the split DR against burning attacks (lasers themselves have an armor divisor of 2 as well). This really decreases effectiveness.

Finally, this all assumes the PC can get this armor! It has an LC of 2 (restricted), so who's to say they have access to it anyway? (Or if they do, they may be arrested for using it).

[SuedodeuS]

Originally Posted by wordwizard

Well, remember that Combat Hardsuits are heavy. 30 lbs. is probably going to add an encumbrance level, dropping Move and Dodge by 1. Also, who wants to wear this armor all the time? It's quite cumbersome so unless you have good Battlesuit skill, all DX-based skills are lowered. Also, at TL 10, lasers are available, and you use the split DR against burning attacks (lasers themselves have an armor divisor of 2 as well). This really decreases effectiveness.

Finally, this all assumes the PC can get this armor! It has an LC of 2 (restricted), so who's to say they have access to it anyway? (Or if they do, they may be arrested for using it).

All correct, except for the laser bit. The split DR is torso/limb - pierce vs burn doesn't matter for the hardsuit (although there are armors that this does matter for).

The hardsuit renders a character (nearly) immune to small-arms fire, but specialty ammunition - and stationary weapon emplacements - should be enough to incourage him to keep his head down. In fact, the chance of something hitting his head should be enough to keep it down (as mentioned earlier, the hardsuit's helmet leaves something to be desired in terms of defense).