Magitech-Fluid Steel Arms & Armor

[Fred Brackin]

Sequeing off of a recent sub-thread about whether or not tL5 steel made ofr superior results to TL4- we will now proceed one step beyond that.

The premise is that through magic or soem fucntional equivalant an otherwise pre-industrial society is actually melting its' iron ore and producing "fluid steel" without slag, inclusions or significant impurities. Appropriate heat-treating and other finishing techniques are also assumed.

There are multiple ways this could be done with the default Gurps Magic system,

So how ogood si this stuff. I assume this is the tech that changes the normal weapon quality from "Good" to "Fine" for no extra expense (though I am prepared to learn differently) but what does it do to the DR and weight of armor (and anything else anybody can think of)?

[starslayer]

Assuming they have access to a good selection of the spells in GURPS magic (and not counting the essential spells/earth->stone spells)- then it would be possible for a mage/smith to produce steel alloys of quality at least on par with TL8 (Shape metal, destroy air, heat, protection from heat/fire being the most important ones that I can see).

They would further be able to make use of manufacturing abilities that are equivalent to late TL8 (Shape metal will allow you to get results that could only be achieved in the real world with high end CNC cutting and 3d printing).

As for actual game effects- I think I would just let a society that has lots of mage/smiths produce items as if they were TL8, but only from materials and metallurgical concepts that are available at there base TL (So they can make TL8 steels, but not TL8 transparent aluminum, and not ceramic trauma plates)

[vierasmarius]

Originally Posted by starslayer

As for actual game effects- I think I would just let a society that has lots of mage/smiths produce items as if they were TL8, but only from materials and metallurgical concepts that are available at there base TL (So they can make TL8 steels, but not TL8 transparent aluminum, and not ceramic trauma plates)

The mark of TL6+ manufacturing is the production line, which uses specialization and mechanization to drive down costs. While a TL4^+ Magitech society could produce goods of equal quality, whether they could produce them for that same cost remains a doubt in my mind. Part of this depends on how common Magery is in the specific campaign world, and what scale of mana-powered manufacturing infrastructure is set up.

It probably is simplest to do as you suggest, and just let them make TL8 quality/cost versions of TL4 equipment.

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by starslayer

Assuming they have access to a good selection of the spells in GURPS magic (and not counting the essential spells/earth->stone spells)- then it would be possible for a mage/smith to produce steel alloys of quality at least on par with TL8 (Shape metal, destroy air, heat, protection from heat/fire being the most important ones that I can see).

If, that is, they had the requisite metallurgical knowledge in addition to the spells.

[DanHoward]

All you are going to do is reproduce the best quality TL4 steel. Without modern alloys and high-tech hardening technology you won't get anything better.

[vierasmarius]

Originally Posted by DanHoward

All you are going to do is reproduce the best quality TL4 steel. Without modern alloys and high-tech hardening technology you won't get anything better.

Fine and Very Fine Quality weapons are possible at TL4-. Could these magical techniques have the effect of reducing the cost of such high-quality gear to that of TL7+ manufacturing?

[DanHoward]

That's how I would handle it.

[DouglasCole]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

So how ogood si this stuff. I assume this is the tech that changes the normal weapon quality from "Good" to "Fine" for no extra expense (though I am prepared to learn differently) but what does it do to the DR and weight of armor (and anything else anybody can think of)?

There are very, very good steels - modern steels - that are basically pure iron and carbon. 1080 or 1095 steels, for example. These have good hardenability and strength. For example, 1080 steel quenched from 1500F and tempered at 900F can hit about 870 MPa in yield stress; RHA using MIL-DTL-12560 seems to be similar to SAE 4340 steels, and one reference says that 1/2" plates are low hardness (Rc 37) but good yield strengh (940MPa).

Stress also has the units of energy per unit volume; if we use this as a (poor) gauge of DR, we'll find pure carbon steel, with nothing more than good knowledge of quench and temper, can hit about 95% of the DR of RHA, the "gold standard" by which GURPS measures its armor. Call it DR 66 per inch, or 2.6 per mm.

[Refplace]

I do not understand why you think using magic allows you to create Fine or Very Fine with no extra expense.
Even if everyone was a mage with these spells your still talking about extra skills and effort being used. In most settings not everyone will be able to have them so on top of that you have to increase cost for rarity.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by Refplace

I do not understand why you think using magic allows you to create Fine or Very Fine with no extra expense.
Even if everyone was a mage with these spells your still talking about extra skills and effort being used. In most settings not everyone will be able to have them so on top of that you have to increase cost for rarity.

It isn't making the weapons with magic it's making the equivalent of TL6 or higher steel. It's using maigc to boost TL4 to TL4+2+.