Its not your fault...

PenitentDemon · 07-23-2011, 06:48 PM

Was thinking is it, from Judgements perspective "Unjust" To destroy an angel who gained discord, through little real fault of their own. but is now all but "unsalvagable"

a good example would be the outcaste ofanite of creation in the book of servants... who had to choose between violating her choir dissonance condition and giving mortals awarness of the symphony.

by the time she got a half century vacation in limbo she had gotten 4 points of discord..

and is currently wandering the streets looking for White supremicists then tearing their heads off.

Reason I mention that specific char is she got me thinking on this issue, as , if you dont go for the more cariacture depictions of Dominic its going to be difficult for him.

William · 07-24-2011, 06:05 AM

"Unsalvageable" is a strong concept for powerful, immortal beings. Long imprisonment and thorough workovers by healers and psychologists in Heaven can do wonders.

Being unsalvageable really means the being is willfully disregarding the rules, and continuing to gain dissonance or Discord, aiming for a Fall.

tHEhERETIC · 07-25-2011, 05:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by William

"Unsalvageable" is a strong concept for powerful, immortal beings. Long imprisonment and thorough workovers by healers and psychologists in Heaven can do wonders.

Being unsalvageable really means the being is willfully disregarding the rules, and continuing to gain dissonance or Discord, aiming for a Fall.

Or caught in a death spiral, a loop of dissonance and Discord, with no real hope of pulling out even with intervention. Probably not common, but probably does happen. And Dominic, quietly and out of sight, weeps.

PenitentDemon · 07-26-2011, 12:50 AM

Ofanites with the claustrophobic discord are a good example of this...

am curious how Judgement will confine them before a trial... Since confinement EVEN involunatary confinement CAUSES them dissonance.

unless you give them a BIG Cell.

or have a cherubim attune to them then let them go "on parole"

William · 07-26-2011, 04:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PenitentDemon

Ofanites with the claustrophobic discord are a good example of this...

am curious how Judgement will confine them before a trial... Since confinement EVEN involunatary confinement CAUSES them dissonance.

unless you give them a BIG Cell.

or have a cherubim attune to them then let them go "on parole"

The latter. For that matter, I could see the whole trial taking place in a moving courtroom floating in Heaven's Winds.

chris the cynic · 07-26-2011, 06:56 AM

I thought that it was only dissonant for Ofanim to remain in place too long when they had a choice in the matter and it was servitors of Janus who would get into dissonance if they were locked up against their will (for more than three days in the same place, that is.)

Whitelaughter · 07-26-2011, 08:57 AM

I normally run Judgement as feeling that Falling is a fate worse than death, so that soul-killing an angel to prevent this is in the best interest of the angel.

When holding an angel of The Wind for trial, in addition to their dissonance conditions, Judgement also has to consider the possibility of a prison break, so prisoners would be moved around regularly for both reasons. Cathedrals are effectively of infinite size, so the Council Spires would have no shortage of places capable of holding them. This being Heaven, the cells would be set up to ease removing dissonance - Seraphim and Elohim are going to lose a point of dissonance every week due to the calm and honesty of the cells!

PenitentDemon · 07-26-2011, 03:44 PM

Clautrophobic discord Causes you to gain dissonance, simply for being in a enclosed area... the higher the discord, the more "personal space" you need.

2 points means you cant stand to be in a car... which severely limits an ofanim.

5 points prevents you from feeling comfortable in virtually any building.

you can find it in the angels players guide, in the section on Ofanim.

Does the "let them go for now after a cherubim attunes to them" still sound good.

robkelk · 07-26-2011, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chris the cynic

I thought that it was only dissonant for Ofanim to remain in place too long when they had a choice in the matter and it was servitors of Janus who would get into dissonance if they were locked up against their will (for more than three days in the same place, that is.)

You are correct.

However, that part of the discussion is about a Discordant Ofanite, and its Discord doesn't let it stay in one place...

Whitelaughter · 07-27-2011, 08:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PenitentDemon

Clautrophobic discord Causes you to gain dissonance, simply for being in a enclosed area... the higher the discord, the more "personal space" you need.

Discord can be suppressed (frex EthSacrifice or Celharmony) allowing the Ofanite to be held for transfer. If the Ofanite hasn't Fallen yet, just send Vessel-kill them - they can't get dissonance while in Trauma, after all.

The cell? Welcome to infinite space. An Ofanite's cell in the Council Spires could easily be larger than the earth: and Judgement just project in (with CelProjection) for pre-trial discussions. (They would definitely suppress the Discord for the bulk of the trial though - Discord would render a defendant unfit for trial.

07-23-2011, 06:48 PM	#1
PenitentDemon Join Date: Aug 2008	Its not your fault... Was thinking is it, from Judgements perspective "Unjust" To destroy an angel who gained discord, through little real fault of their own. but is now all but "unsalvagable" a good example would be the outcaste ofanite of creation in the book of servants... who had to choose between violating her choir dissonance condition and giving mortals awarness of the symphony. by the time she got a half century vacation in limbo she had gotten 4 points of discord.. and is currently wandering the streets looking for White supremicists then tearing their heads off. Reason I mention that specific char is she got me thinking on this issue, as , if you dont go for the more cariacture depictions of Dominic its going to be difficult for him.

07-24-2011, 06:05 AM	#2
William Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Upper Peninsula of Michigan	Re: Its not your fault... "Unsalvageable" is a strong concept for powerful, immortal beings. Long imprisonment and thorough workovers by healers and psychologists in Heaven can do wonders. Being unsalvageable really means the being is willfully disregarding the rules, and continuing to gain dissonance or Discord, aiming for a Fall.

07-26-2011, 12:50 AM	#4
PenitentDemon Join Date: Aug 2008	Re: Its not your fault... Ofanites with the claustrophobic discord are a good example of this... am curious how Judgement will confine them before a trial... Since confinement EVEN involunatary confinement CAUSES them dissonance. unless you give them a BIG Cell. or have a cherubim attune to them then let them go "on parole"

07-26-2011, 06:56 AM	#6
chris the cynic Join Date: May 2005	Re: Its not your fault... I thought that it was only dissonant for Ofanim to remain in place too long when they had a choice in the matter and it was servitors of Janus who would get into dissonance if they were locked up against their will (for more than three days in the same place, that is.)

07-26-2011, 08:57 AM	#7
Whitelaughter Join Date: Jun 2011	Re: Its not your fault... I normally run Judgement as feeling that Falling is a fate worse than death, so that soul-killing an angel to prevent this is in the best interest of the angel. When holding an angel of The Wind for trial, in addition to their dissonance conditions, Judgement also has to consider the possibility of a prison break, so prisoners would be moved around regularly for both reasons. Cathedrals are effectively of infinite size, so the Council Spires would have no shortage of places capable of holding them. This being Heaven, the cells would be set up to ease removing dissonance - Seraphim and Elohim are going to lose a point of dissonance every week due to the calm and honesty of the cells!

07-26-2011, 03:44 PM	#8
PenitentDemon Join Date: Aug 2008	Re: Its not your fault... Clautrophobic discord Causes you to gain dissonance, simply for being in a enclosed area... the higher the discord, the more "personal space" you need. 2 points means you cant stand to be in a car... which severely limits an ofanim. 5 points prevents you from feeling comfortable in virtually any building. you can find it in the angels players guide, in the section on Ofanim. Does the "let them go for now after a cherubim attunes to them" still sound good.