Infinite ammo cheat (snatcher?)

[WaterAndWindSpirit]

Hello y'all!

If I wanted a character with the explicit paranormal abilities to both, depending on the situation, teleport ammunition carried on their person into a gun in their hands, or to generate a full magazine of ammo anytime needed, but requires high mana to actually create new ammunition.

Snatcher, regular (i.e. no hollow point or AP rounds) Ammunition only (-80%), Cosmic (no dice roll needed) (+50%), Costs extra fatigue.

Sounds about right?

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by WaterAndWindSpirit

Hello y'all!

If I wanted a character with the explicit paranormal abilities to both, depending on the situation, teleport ammunition carried on their person into a gun in their hands, or to generate a full magazine of ammo anytime needed, but requires high mana to actually create new ammunition.

Snatcher, regular (i.e. no hollow point or AP rounds) Ammunition only (-80%), Cosmic (no dice roll needed) (+50%), Costs extra fatigue.

Sounds about right?

Or just the Infinite Ammo Perk.

Given the usual shortness of Gurps combats and the number of rounds modern soldiers carry on their persons (hunfreds according to tactical shooting) managing not to run out of ammo in a "normal" Gurps fight isn't that big a deal.

Also, Snatcher is sufficiently difficult to use that it wouldn't even be that good for reloading in combat.

[tanksoldier]

teleport ammunition carried on their person into a gun in their hands,

The skill level required / concentration required in combat to teleport something that precisely, you’re better off spending the points on fast draw (ammo) and quick reload.

Given the usual shortness of Gurps combats

Being able to generate infinite ammo becomes more important in some campaigns than others. A post apocalyptic scenario makes that very powerful, a day to day mundane world less so.

.the number of rounds modern soldiers carry on their persons (hunfreds according to tactical shooting)

Basic load for a rifleman is 30x7 rounds of 5.56... 210 rounds... and usually you find ways to carry more. I’ve had guys run out of ammo in a firefight but in real life there is a LOT more unaimed fire going on than in a role playing game. There are a lot fewer people exposing themselves to return fire in order to get off aimed shots as well.

As a cop I carried 3x17 rounds of 9mm plus 12 more in my backup, and a spare 30 round mag for the patrol rifle, for a total of 60 there but you almost never fire unaimed rounds as a cop. Every round has to have a specific target and a specific reason for being fired, which cuts down on ammo usage.

In my personal experience the way firearms rules are used in GURPS matches civilian/ law enforcement encounters fairly well... mostly because most civilian encounters are a surprise and short ranged... but a GURPS military firefight is really nothing like a real world engagement, not so much because of the rules but because of how players run their characters.

[evileeyore]

Originally Posted by WaterAndWindSpirit

Sounds about right?

Depends on the campaign genre.

After the End? Snatcher is the right call.

Monster Hunters? Infinite Ammo (Quasi-Realistic Ammo) Perk is the right call.


Note that Infinite Ammo Perk isn't actually Infinite Ammo, it's just that you will always have that ammo available in most fights. You still have to show your character gearing up, loading mags, etc. I'd combine Infinite Ammo Perk with SOP (Guns and Bullets) Perk so you the Player don't have to detail that nonsense and the Character is presumed to do most of the gun loading off camera.

And if the GM allows it, instead take the Infinite Ammo (Over-the-Top Ammo) Perk... but in Monster Hunters I'd charge 5 points for it.

[whswhs]

In some campaigns, infinite ammo would be a zero point feature. Say you're in a cinematic campaign with cinematic combat rules; running out of ammo might just not happen. Or maybe a character with Guns! skill might not be subject to it.

You could also buy a Piercing Attack that does the same damage as your favored firearm; adjust it to have the right range, accuracy, and so on with modifiers; and then take gadget modifiers based on the size of the firearm—but not take a "limited shots" modifier. You could even say that your gadget can be replaced, with the cost of the replacement being the cost of the firearm. Then the "firearm" would actually be a power residing in a replaceable gadget.

[AlexanderHowl]

Cosmic (No Die Roll Required) is a +100% modifier (Powers, p. 101). It automatically gives you a roll of '3', which means that you have to have some chance of success. If you do not have the Permanent (+300%) enhancement, each clip disappears when you summon another clip, so you cannot really stock up. Since you cannot use Snatcher into an object because you need a free hand, you would still have to Fast-Draw (Ammo) a clip to insert it into a firearm. As Snatcher takes 10 seconds normally, you would want Reduced Time 4 (+80%) to reduce to make it useful in combat.

In total, you would need Snatcher (Cosmic, No Die Roll Required, +100%; Reduced Time 4, +80%) [224] to be able to have infinite ammo. By comparison, you could easily purchase the equivalent of a blaster rifle as an ability without any need for ammo, which would only cost 123 CP. So, you would be spending an extra 101 CP to supply ammunition for a weapon that would be inferior to any attack abilities that you could purchase.

[Kallatari]

If you are looking for a power-style build instead of a perk (which, as others have said, should depend on the setting), another alternative is to purchase Innate Attack with Accessibility (Requires Gun) -10%. (Don't use the Gadget limitation)

For your first step, create your gun with the correct range, RoF, etc., to match the most commonly used gun by the character. See Built-In Firearms in GURPS Powers (p.136) for a good baseline. from that baseline, remove the Limited Use limitation to represent infinite ammo, and add Accessibility (Requires Gun) -10%.

Next you need to deal with your two options of how it works:

- For the "teleport ammo carried on person", this is merely Requires Material Component (Ammunition) -10%, which uses up the ammo.
- For the "create ammo, but only in High Mana" version, if this is just like Magical -10% (i.e., can also be warded or dispelled) but requires High Mana instead of Normal Mana, I'd bump it to -15%. If it's solely about mana and can't be dispelled or warded, then I'd call it a -10% limitation (as needing normal mana is a -5% limitation). By your limited description, I'm going to assume the latter and say -10%.

Now, the above becomes a Either/Or Limitations from Getting Tricky with Modifiers. You multiply both together to get a final limitation: So, -10% x -10% effectively becomes -1%. (Note, even if your Magical was -15%, that would still round out to a -10% x -15% = -1% limitation) You might want to just accept that it's not that meaningful of a limitation and just round it out to a -0% limitation; basically a special effect. So this is a "Must either use existing ammo or be in High Mana, -0%"

That's for a single gun. If you will only have one or two alternate guns and/or ammo types, purchase them as Alternate Abilities. If you're going to be using a wide variety of guns and ammo, a Modular Ability might be right. Or, purchase a high level of Innate Attack, purchase the best traits (range, RoF, etc. of all possible guns, and add Selectivity +10% and "Can't exceed stats of gun, -10%"). That gets more tricky and I leave the full build for you.


Finally, note that this build, or that Perk that others have suggested, only gives that character the unlimited ammo. If this ability can also allow him to also fill in the ammo of his teammates ("give me your gun for a sec") then Snatcher is probably the fairer method... and you'll want to add some sort of "places the ammo directly in the gun" enhancement (I'd call it +10%). And I'd apply the same "Must either use existing ammo or be in High Mana, -0%" limitation to Snatcher.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by evileeyore

Depends on the campaign genre.

After the End? Snatcher is the right call.

That might affect the importance of ammo but it doens't make Snatcher any friendlier.

First there's a 10 second Concentrate required and then after you make the IQ/Power Skill roll the Snatched item appears in your hand rather than your gun.

Since you're having to load the ammo yourself you'd just as well get a 5 lb box of ammo rather than a single round.

Then after you've shot off all 5 lbs of ammo you'd Snatch another 5 lb box and the provious box goes back where it came from. Probably still in "fired" condition so soem gun store in another dimension has a bunch of loose bullets and cartridges and powder smoke.

I have no idea what happens to previosuly Snatched food but it probably isn't pretty.

Avoiding all this is a +300% modifier and makes almost anything else a better build. Even the Innate Attack (Requires Gun).

[evileeyore]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

That might affect the importance of ammo but it doens't make Snatcher any friendlier.

AtE uses bullets as money. An infinite supply of money doesn't need to be "friendly".


[EDIT]
Ah, never mind. I forgot that Snatcher wasn't permanent by default. I still might consider it a proper cost though if they can Snatch in an ammo case...
[/EDIT]

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by evileeyore

AtE uses bullets as money. An infinite supply of money doesn't need to be "friendly".


[EDIT]
Ah, never mind. I forgot that Snatcher wasn't permanent by default. I still might consider it a proper cost though if they can Snatch in an ammo case...
[/EDIT]

Snatching money is one of the uses thats not realy impaired by non-permance. At least as long as you have no fixed address and keep moving on anyway. Maintaining a decent separation between your transactions and the discrepancies in accounts receivable could help a lot.