Historical soldiers etc...

[John Smith]

I have already tried to do this: http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=87705. It didn't go well. So I'm starting a new thread with the same basic idea but due to some "experts" I will refrain from statting anything older than the 1st century AD.

So here we go:

Norman Knight (11th century; TL 3)

ST 12 1d-1/1d+2
DX 11
HT 10
IQ 10

Skills: Riding (Horse)-12; Spear-12; Broadsword-12; Shield-13; Leadership-10; Soldier/TL3-10
Equipment: Knee-lenght heavy mail hauberk ($ 2040; Torso, upper arms, elbows, thighs; DR 5*, -2 v. crushing); long heavy mail coif ($420; Neck and skull; DR 5*, -2 v. crushing); Medium plate bascinet ($625; DR 6); Thrusting broadsword ($600); Long Spear ($60); Kite Shield ($120; DB 3; DR4; HP 21; Cover DR 9; Block 12)

Attacks: Long Spear (Normal grip w.shield) 1d+1 imp; Reach 2,3*; Parry 12U - Reverse Grip: 1d+2 imp; Reach 1*; Parry 10U - Two-Handed grip: 1d+2 imp; Reach 2,3*; Parry 9. Broadsword (With shield): 1d+3 cut/ 1d+1 imp; Reach 1; Parry 12.

Medieval crossbowman (Peasant) (TL3)

ST 10 1d-2/1d
DX 10
IQ 10
HT 10

Skills: Crossbow-10; Knife-10
Equipment: ST 12 Crossbow ($150, with stirrup, using the Low-Tech rules); Large Knife ($40)
Attacks: Crossbow, 1d+2 imp, Acc 4, Range 240/300, Shots 1(8); Large Knife, 1d-2 cut, Reach C,1 OR 1d-2 imp, Reach C; Parry 7.
[Pretty deadly, if hiding behind a castle wall; and for only 2 points ans $190!]

English Longbowman (Free Company) (TL 3)

ST 11 1d-1/1d+1; Arm ST +2 (1d/2d-1)
DX 11
HT 11 FP 11
IQ 10 Will 10 Per 10

Skills: Bow-13; Soldier/TL3-11; Fast-Draw (Arrow)-13; Axe/Mace-11; Strongbow perk.
Equipment: Longbow($200, ST 15); Mace($50); Fine mail shirt (Torso and shoulders) ($990; DR 4*, DR 2* v. Crushing); Medium plate pot helm ($ 500; DR 6).
Attacks: Longbow, 1d+3 imp, Acc 3, Range 225/300, RoF1, Shots 1(2), Bulk -8; Mace, 2d+2 cr, Parry 8U.

English Longbowman (Levy) (TL 3)

ST 11 1d-1/1d+1; Arm ST +1 (1d/1d+2)
DX 10
HT 10 FP 10
IQ 10 Will 10 Per 10

Skills: Bow-11; Soldier/TL3-10; Fast-Draw (Arrow)-11; Axe/Mace-10; Strongbow perk.
Equipment: Longbow($200, ST 14); Mace($50); Leather shirt (Light layered; Torso and shoulders) ($180; DR 2*); Cheap medium plate pot helm ($ 200; DR 5).
Attacks: Longbow, 1d+2 imp, Acc 3, Range 210/280, RoF1, Shots 1(2), Bulk -8; Mace, 1d+4 cr, Parry 8U.

British Redcoat (Early-Mid TL5)

ST 11 1d-1/1d+1
DX 10
HT 10 FP 10
IQ 10 WIll 10 Per 10

Skills: Soldier/TL5-11; Guns(Musket)/TL5-11; Spear-11; Fast-Draw (Ammo)/TL5-12; Hiking-11.

Equipment: Brown Bess($100); Socket Bayonet ($40); 20 paper cartridges ($8).

Attacks: Brown Bess, 4d+2 pi++, Acc 2, Range 100/1000, RoF1, Shots 1(20) (due to the paper cartridges; reduced to 15 with a successful Fast-Draw roll; times increased to 22 and 16 with the bayonet fixed, 30 and 23 when not standing, 33 and 25 when both apply); Bulk -6.
Bayonet(takes 4 seconds to fix), 1d+2 imp, Reach 1,2*.

Napoleonic Old Guard (Mid-TL5)

ST 12 1d-1/1d+2
DX 10
HT 11 FP 11
IQ 10 Will 10 Per 10

Skills: Soldier/TL5-13; Guns(Musket)/TL5-13; Spear-13; Fast-Draw (Ammo)/TL5-13; Hiking-12; Saber-11; Intimidation-11.
Equipment: Charleville Mle 1777 AN IX musket($150); Socket Bayonet ($40); 20 paper cartridges ($8).
Attacks: Charleville musket, 4d+1 pi++, Acc 2, Range 110/1200, RoF1, Shots 1(20) (due to the paper cartridges; reduced to 15 with a successful Fast-Draw roll; times increased to 22 and 16 with the bayonet fixed, 30 and 23 when not standing, 33 and 25 when both apply); Bulk -7.
Bayonet(takes 4 seconds to fix), 1d+2 imp, Reach 1,2*.


A question: should the rule on p. MA 107, allowing to substitute slam damage to thrust on a Move and Attack, apply when mounted?

[johndallman]

Originally Posted by John Smith

English Longbowman (TL 3)
British Redcoat (Early TL5)

They seem OK as outlines, but the archer seems to have rather more points, for no very obvious reason.

[ed_209a]

Originally Posted by johndallman

They seem OK as outlines, but the archer seems to have rather more points, for no very obvious reason.

I think maybe because the English Longbowman has a reputation for being more than just any old archer, more like an elite troop type.

This guy might meet your expectations more:

Generic TL3 Archer

ST 11 1d-1/1d+1;
DX 11
HT 11 FP 11
IQ 10 Will 10 Per 10

Skills: Bow-11; Soldier/TL3-11; Fast-Draw (Arrow)-11; Axe/Mace-11;

[johndallman]

Originally Posted by ed_209a

This guy might meet your expectations more:
Generic TL3 Archer

Not really. I have no trouble with the English longbowman's training and competence. But he's got ST, DX and HT of 11 where the redcoat - also with a claim to quality - has only ST. Those attributes are where the excess points are.

[Landwalker]

Personally, I'm a bit confuzzled about the Soldier skill. That isn't a cheap skill to have a good level in, and I'm having trouble figuring out why the part-time longbowmen/yeomanry would have it at a higher level than the Redcoats, who are hailing from an age of more professional militaries. Soldier 11 seems about right for the bog-standard Redcoat, but I don't see how the Longbowman can be considered to have more than Soldier 10, if not 9.

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by John Smith

I have already tried to do this: http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=87705. It didn't go well. So I'm starting a new thread with the same basic idea but due to some "experts" I will refrain from statting anything older than the 1st century AD.

So here we go:

English Longbowman (TL 3)

ST 11 1d-1/1d+1; Arm ST +2 (1d/2d-1)
DX 11
HT 11 FP 11
IQ 10 Will 10 Per 10

Skills: Bow-13; Soldier/TL3-12; Fast-Draw (Arrow)-13; Axe/Mace-11; Strongbow perk.
Equipment: Longbow($200, ST 15); Mace($50); Cheap fine mail shirt (Torso and shoulders) ($396; DR 3, DR 1 v. Crushing); Cheap medium plate pot helm ($ 200; DR 4).
Attacks: Longbow, 1d+3 imp, Acc 3, Range 225/300, RoF1, Shots 1(2), Bulk -8; Mace, 2d+2 cr, Parry 8U.

British Redcoat (Early TL5)

ST 11 1d-1/1d+1
DX 10
HT 10 FP 10
IQ 10 WIll 10 Per 10

Skills: Soldier/TL5-11; Guns(Musket)/TL5-11; Spear-11; Fast-Draw (Ammo)/TL5-12; Hiking-11.

Equipment: Brown Bess($100); Socket Bayonet ($40); 20 paper cartridges ($8).

Attacks: Brown Bess, 4d+2 pi++, Acc 2, RoF1, Shots 1(20) (due to the paper cartridges; reduced to 15 with a successful Fast-Draw roll; times increased to 22 and 16 with the bayonet fixed, 30 and 23 when not standing, 33 and 25 when both apply); Bulk -6.
Bayonet(takes 4 seconds to fix), 1d+2 imp, Reach 1,2*.

Redcoats did a lot more marching in formation than longbowmen. Their soldier skill should be higher than that of longbowmen. The longbowmen are surprisingly well armoured all things considered.

[gilbertocarlos]

The HT of longbowmen should be 10, the soldier skill should be 10 or 11, they should probably wear leather or cloth, not mail.
Since they are historical, you should use the harsh realism rules for melee powered weapons.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by Landwalker

Personally, I'm a bit confuzzled about the Soldier skill. That isn't a cheap skill to have a good level in, and I'm having trouble figuring out why the part-time longbowmen/yeomanry would have it at a higher level than the Redcoats, who are hailing from an age of more professional militaries.

Eh, that depends. A longbowman who practisies every Sunday and waits to eb called up, sure. He's not a professional. By the time he's gotten all the way to Agincourt he is of course a professional. One of those red coats who hadn't seen as much action would probably have a lower Soldier Skill.

Of course, the two types of soldiers in question don't use the _same_ Soldier Skill. Soldier not only specializes by TL it probably ought to specialize by individual army or at least Cultural Familiarity region.

Soldier is also a very broad if ratrher shallow Skill and encompasses much more than marching in formation. At some TLs (like 8) it doesn't cover that. It always covers taking care of your gear (whatever that is) and setting up camp and crossing country and forming up for battles however your particular army does these things but exactly how you do these things is subject to large variation.

The TL3 bowman would no doubt not measure up to the TL5 seargeant's standards but the reverse is true and neither of them would recieve kind words (in Vulgar Latin) from a TL2 Centurion.

Give every professional/experienced soldier of whatever TL at least a pt in the appropriate Soldier Skill. Note that Soldier TL3 (Mongol Horde) is a prefectly valid option even if it does spend more time on taking care of horses than either the longbowman or red coat's version does.

[chrissandvick]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

Eh, that depends. A longbowman who practisies every Sunday and waits to eb called up, sure. He's not a professional. By the time he's gotten all the way to Agincourt he is of course a professional.

And English Longbowmen served as mercenaries all over Europe. I could see a long serving Free Company vet being higher skilled and carrying better equipment.

[gilbertocarlos]

Originally Posted by chrissandvick

And English Longbowmen served as mercenaries all over Europe. I could see a long serving Free Company vet being higher skilled and carrying better equipment.

But if you say that a English Longbowman has X, this means that an average one has X, not the best ones, a best one should have a bonus.