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Old 11-02-2017, 10:45 PM   #21
Johnny1A.2
 
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Default Re: If interstellar Colonies become possible, who goes first?

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I think if it becomes possible, it would be the result of research at the Shezbeth black hole.

So, Vosper - Babbage, in partnership with Hawking Industries would go out first, with heavy support by Great Britain, the EU (yeah ...) and South Africa. "Spacecraft of the Solar System" states that there are nationalists in GB's space fleet. They could try to make the interstellar expeditions "pure British" enterprises, which would raise the wrath of the rest-EU.

IMO, the main opponents would be the preservationists. They would not be happy that transhumanity will spoil the rest of the universe.

Other conflicts would depend on what it is out there.

Virginia (the planet) would probably visited by an international expedition ("look, but don't touch. At least not until we are sure there are no intelligent natives"), but Green Duncanites like Avatar Klusterkorp would probably try to get their hands on it. This could trigger a conflict between the Duncanites and the forces of order (everyone who is no Duncanite).
Everyone? No. Most people wouldn't care enough to intervene. There are some governments and groups that would, but there would also be people willing to aid the Duncanites against them, even if they didn't agree with the Duncanites' particular plans for Virginia.
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Old 11-03-2017, 06:53 AM   #22
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Default Re: If interstellar Colonies become possible, who goes first?

Guys, you seem to assume that the ecconomics of Transhuman Space are totally identical to those of 2017. Let"s remember the relative wealth is far greater particularly off planet and in fifth wave societies.

Also large numbers of people live their lives off planet in artificial habitats. It is far less of a burden for these folks to live on space ships for extended periods.
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Old 11-03-2017, 12:18 PM   #23
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Default Re: If interstellar Colonies become possible, who goes first?

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Guys, you seem to assume that the ecconomics of Transhuman Space are totally identical to those of 2017. Let"s remember the relative wealth is far greater particularly off planet and in fifth wave societies.
It doesn't matter, interstellar travel is by its nature energy intensive, and therefore extremely expensive. Interstellar distances are vast. Any colony you establish will be at significant expense, and completely independent from the beginning. The costs of shipping and the turnaround times mean that unless you find some truly ridiculous unobtainium, physical goods aren't ever going to be profitable under hard physics and economics, even for Type III civilizations, and the solar system in 2100 isn't even really Type I yet.
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Old 11-03-2017, 12:47 PM   #24
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Default Re: If interstellar Colonies become possible, who goes first?

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Guys, you seem to assume that the ecconomics of Transhuman Space are totally identical to those of 2017. Let"s remember the relative wealth is far greater particularly off planet and in fifth wave societies.
That really doesn't matter. Even if we handwave transport costs to zero (which is not what your proposal does), colonizing an extrasolar planet would be a lot of effort for no real benefit. Someone might do it as a PR stunt, but you won't get anything significant until there's a better reason than "because we can".
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Old 11-03-2017, 05:58 PM   #25
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Default Re: If interstellar Colonies become possible, who goes first?

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Which religous groups most want total memetic purity? They'd go out. Wouldn't they?
What, and leave their children no chance of visiting Jerusalem / Rome / Mecca / Salt Lake City / Izumo / insert-other-important-religious-locations-on-Earth ever again? I suspect they'd stay on Earth and send everybody else instead, if they had the ability.
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Old 11-03-2017, 08:44 PM   #26
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Default Re: If interstellar Colonies become possible, who goes first?

Nah. You just need a prophet to take them to the "true" holy land amongst the stars. Obviously works best for revelation based religions/sects that can make such major changes quickly.
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Old 11-04-2017, 01:36 AM   #27
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Default Re: If interstellar Colonies become possible, who goes first?

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Nah. You just need a prophet to take them to the "true" holy land amongst the stars. Obviously works best for revelation based religions/sects that can make such major changes quickly.
Good point. New faiths are a Transhuman Space commonplace. Further, with memetics, secular idealists could inspire similar devotion.
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Old 11-04-2017, 01:38 PM   #28
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Default Re: If interstellar Colonies become possible, who goes first?

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It doesn't matter, interstellar travel is by its nature energy intensive, and therefore extremely expensive. Interstellar distances are vast. Any colony you establish will be at significant expense, and completely independent from the beginning. The costs of shipping and the turnaround times mean that unless you find some truly ridiculous unobtainium, physical goods aren't ever going to be profitable under hard physics and economics, even for Type III civilizations, and the solar system in 2100 isn't even really Type I yet.
I'm assuming the desired goods are psychological. They desire an empty frontier with no one nosing in to control them or to spread unwanted memes on their children. Back in the 1990s several Doctor Who novels made the assumption that isolated human colonies choose isolation because they feared cultural contamination of one kind or another. A logic way to see things.

Also certain people might see the solar system as hostile to their ideal of Freedom or Justice. They'd leave to secure a human future for their children just as the Puritans took a massive risk crossing the Atlantic to secure a godly future for their children.

Settler colonization is rarely all that rational in motive.
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Old 11-04-2017, 01:44 PM   #29
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Default Re: If interstellar Colonies become possible, who goes first?

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I'm assuming the desired goods are psychological. They desire an empty frontier with no one nosing in to control them or to spread unwanted memes on their children. Back in the 1990s several Doctor Who novels made the assumption that isolated human colonies choose isolation because they feared cultural contamination of one kind or another. A logic way to see things.

Also certain people might see the solar system as hostile to their ideal of Freedom or Justice. They'd leave to secure a human future for their children just as the Puritans took a massive risk crossing the Atlantic to secure a godly future for their children.

Settler colonization is rarely all that rational in motive.
None of these are economic motives.
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Old 11-04-2017, 05:35 PM   #30
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Default Re: If interstellar Colonies become possible, who goes first?

It seems that the only reasonable motivation for full colonies rather than scientific outposts is one of extreme somewhat self-harming xenophobia. Religious zealotry just being a subset of that.
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