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Old 06-15-2018, 10:55 AM   #21
Terquem
 
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Default Re: Size of Melee Hexes

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Originally Posted by Groknard View Post
Legal is 8.5" x 14", close to the original. Needs to comfortably fit 3 x 5 megahexes, and the scale needs to allow a 5 x 5 megahex map for the larger Wizard sheet (14" x 14"?). And both need to match the size of the components (counters and rules) and fold in such a way as to meet the packaging and shipping requirements. Scale any one element up or down, and everything else may need to be re-evaluated.
I'll fire up AutoCad today

The sheet of paper that will display the map should have a regular size (ISO 216 standard sizes are close but not exact to ANSIY14.1 standard sizes, and I don't know what standard Steve Jackson Games is more familiar with and uses for all their product development, if they are determined to stick with American "Loose" paper sizes, well I suppose I can work with that, haha) and on this sheet I need to decide how much "Area" will be taken up by the image

I can't know the product size of the boxes that will be offered for the Kickstarter, but let's say they are 9"x12" (that original "red box" game, you know that "other" game we aren't talking about here was 9x11.5")

If the box is 9"x12" and I am shooting for producing an image on an ANSI Y14.1 sheet size C which is 17"x22" (close to ISO A2, 16.5"x23.4") I bet I can put an image of the Melee Map on a field with sufficient borders and text in the margins with handy references using 32mm hexes, and with bleed through (printing right to the edge of each sheet) have two folded 11"x17" sheets that when placed together make a 17"x22" game board

I'll check back after I've run a few changes on my AutoCad file


I'll also run a version on two "Legal" size sheets (8.5"x14" which is a unique "Loose" American paper size that is not close to either ISO or ANSI standards, but can be reproduced in AutoCad Plotting formats)

I suppose the 8.5"x14" sheet would have to be folded itself (otherwise the box size would need a dimension in one plane greater than 14 inches, right?). If this is 7"x8.5" and there were two folded maps placed side by side. this would be a game board 14"x17" (?)

The Car Wars box game (released a few years ago) was 6.25"x9.25" (approximate to within .0625 inches)

Edited

Last edited by Terquem; 06-30-2018 at 10:18 AM.
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Old 06-15-2018, 11:06 AM   #22
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Default Re: Size of Melee Hexes

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Originally Posted by tbeard1999 View Post
Many (most?) fantasy roleplayers have a substantial investment in modern 28mm minis.
Actually, I think it would be more accurate to say that most fantasy roleplayers who use minis have a substantial investment in modern 28mm minis. :D Most fantasy roleplayers don't seem to use minis at all, as far as I have seen. Though perhaps the pendulum is swinging back due in part to D&D 4E and 5E.

Even then, I've seen recent miniatures characterized as everything from "heroic 25mm" (Reaper, for instance) to 28mm to 30mm (DDM) and now 32mm, with all of those actually measuring 29-32mm, sometimes base to eye, sometimes base to top of head, sometimes, etc..

Seems it will be impossible to please everyone, and that the PDFs are a good compromise to allow them to focus on whatever best fits into the requirements for the game (manufacturing, packaging) on a standalone basis.
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Old 06-15-2018, 11:13 AM   #23
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Default Re: Size of Melee Hexes

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Originally Posted by Terquem View Post
I can't know the product size of the boxes that will be offered for the Kickstarter, but let's say they are 9"x12" (that original "red box" game, you know that "other" game we aren't talking about here was 9x11.5")
My understanding from conversations yesterday was that Melee and Wizard would be published as separately available smaller boxes, and included with the full TFT package in a 9"x2"x11" bookcase style box. I believe the plan is that all three -- Melee alone, Wizard alone and the whole TFT Legacy Edition boxed set -- are to be made available for retail when all is said and done. All preliminary, actual mileage may vary.
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Old 06-15-2018, 11:20 AM   #24
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Default Re: Size of Melee Hexes

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Originally Posted by Groknard View Post
Actually, I think it would be more accurate to say that most fantasy roleplayers who use minis have a substantial investment in modern 28mm minis. :D Most fantasy roleplayers don't seem to use minis at all, as far as I have seen. Though perhaps the pendulum is swinging back due in part to D&D 4E and 5E.
Yeah, I should amend my statement to say “many (most?) game masters have a substantial investment...” since in my experience, the GMs wind up providing most of the terrain and miniatures. I suspect that many of them may use the Pathfinder cardboard minis (I’m ordering a batch now, as a matter of fact), but they look like they have the 1 inch bases.

Quote:
Even then, I've seen recent miniatures characterized as everything from "heroic 25mm" (Reaper, for instance) to 28mm to 30mm (DDM) and now 32mm, with all of those actually measuring 29-32mm, sometimes base to eye, sometimes base to top of head, sometimes, etc.
Long time fantasy miniature wargamer here. So-called 25mm figures have definitely gotten larger. Even in the early 1980s, Ral Partha figures were noticeably more slender than chunky lines like Grenadier.

Quote:
Seems it will be impossible to please everyone, and that the PDFs are a good compromise to allow them to focus on whatever best fits into the requirements for the game (manufacturing, packaging) on a standalone basis.
No question about it. My concern is not the map; as you say, that can be printed at whatever size you want. The acrylic megahexes, though, will be nice accessories and won’t be able to be easily resized (though I’m running off a test set of my own - I laid them out for ponoko months ago - soon).

It does seem a daunting task to size the Melee map up. If the current hexes are 1 inch, then scaling them up to 1.25 inches will make the 8.25x14 map a 13.7x21.9 map. Given the ridiculously reasonable price point, I’d imagine increasing the box size to accommodate a much larger map would add a lot to the price.

Maybe a kickstarter stretch goal?

Of course, I don’t really care. I’m gonna buy TFT regardless (and maybe a couple of sets for friends) As I said, I already have a set of laser cut acrylic megahexas ready to send to ponoko. I am still playing around with getting the smallest size hex that’s convenient.

Last edited by tbeard1999; 06-15-2018 at 11:41 AM.
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Old 06-15-2018, 11:52 AM   #25
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Default Re: Size of Melee Hexes

Speaking as an old f*rt who doesn't use minis, my tired old eyes wouldn't mind some slightly larger hexes and counters, but the originals still seem to work for me (23mm). Still, if Steve wanted to bump them up to 30mm to accommodate the 28mm miniature users, I wouldn't complain... ;-)
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Old 06-15-2018, 02:21 PM   #26
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Default Re: Size of Melee Hexes

I'm definitely in favour of a larger hex size to accomodate minis.
Even 30mm would work fine.
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Old 06-15-2018, 06:54 PM   #27
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Default Re: Size of Melee Hexes

Meant to add this the other day, but forgot.

FWIW, the Dungeon Fantasy hexes are 25mm, flat to flat. Standard GURPS size, I believe. The DFRPG cardboard heroes hex bases are also 25mm. The standard character itself is 20mm x 37mm edge-to-edge, 30mm visible when in the stand, and the illustration itself is about 25mm, for a standard human.
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Old 06-15-2018, 07:09 PM   #28
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Default Re: Size of Melee Hexes

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Originally Posted by Groknard View Post
Meant to add this the other day, but forgot.

FWIW, the Dungeon Fantasy hexes are 25mm, flat to flat. Standard GURPS size, I believe. The DFRPG cardboard heroes hex bases are also 25mm. The standard character itself is 20mm x 37mm edge-to-edge, 30mm visible when in the stand, and the illustration itself is about 25mm, for a standard human.
Does DFRPG use the standard GURPS 1 hex = 1 yard scale?

Regardless, their maps should be close enough to work with TFT.
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Old 06-15-2018, 07:22 PM   #29
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Default Re: Size of Melee Hexes

Actually, I got so used to using one side of the ruler, I didn't really take the other side into account.

A DFRPG hex is technically 1 inch, rather than 25mm. And according to the rulebook, 1" = 3 feet. So, yes, a hex is a yard.

I definitely didn't bring this up with the intention of re-opening the closed metric thread, so we should leave it there!
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Old 06-15-2018, 08:16 PM   #30
tbeard1999
 
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Default Re: Size of Melee Hexes

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Originally Posted by Groknard View Post
Actually, I got so used to using one side of the ruler, I didn't really take the other side into account.

A DFRPG hex is technically 1 inch, rather than 25mm. And according to the rulebook, 1" = 3 feet. So, yes, a hex is a yard.

I definitely didn't bring this up with the intention of re-opening the closed metric thread, so we should leave it there!
Oh, don’t worry, I couldn’t care less about the metric debate. One easy way to avoid the debate is to say “paces” instead of yards or meters.

TFT is nominally 1.33 “paces” per hex. So a 10’ dungeon corridor would be something like 2.3 hexes. I prefer 10’ wide dungeons to be 3 hexes or squares wide, so 1 pace per hex is about right. I’d avoid the GURPs conceit of 3 hex horses or pole weapons with 3 hex ranges, though, and use 2 hex horses, and limit normal pole weapons to 2 hex range.
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