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Old 05-01-2019, 07:06 AM   #1
hcobb
 
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Default Roleplaying as a second person narrative

As wiki says:

"The second-person point of view is a point of view where the audience is made a character." - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narration#Second-person

I have become acutely aware, and slightly uncomfortable, of this while writing up an extended automated adventure.

This is moving from just willing suspension of disbelief: "You are living in a world where magic exists and operates under the following self-consistent rules"

... to willing suspension of personal autonomy: "You are this specific goblin woman, cut off from Goblin society and living precariously under a human society in the company of humans who somewhat tolerate your existence while treating you like a plaything or possession."

Have other authors of personal second person adventures encountered this and if so, how did it make you feel?

Have you played such adventures yourself, and how did these make you feel? What as an author can I do to soften the blows, without diluting the entertainment? I have tried to imply much more than I state to leave the implications for the reader to decide for themselves.
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Old 05-01-2019, 07:26 AM   #2
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Default Re: Roleplaying as a second person narrative

Choose Your Own Adventure books and the like do this all the time, and I agree that being given details of my second-person self can be jarring. And as a white male child I was the target demographic of those books. I would guess that someone else would find them even more jarring.

The ones I found that worked best were the ones that kept details of my second-person self vague. I can be male, female, or something else, I can be tall or short, white or black, living or mechanical, young or old, and it doesn't change the story. The author has to sacrifice these sorts of details to do this, though.
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Old 05-01-2019, 11:05 AM   #3
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Default Re: Roleplaying as a second person narrative

Second Person Narrative isn't necessarily transgressive. Technically role playing as a hobby is narrated in the Second Person "You're all at the Inn for a drink on a Friday night when adventure takes hold of you..". It's a matter of narrating in a manner that leaves autonomy for the players.
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Old 05-01-2019, 07:43 PM   #4
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Default Re: Roleplaying as a second person narrative

Is hcobb's point even really about point of view ("second person")? His actual complaint seems to have more to do with supplanting player choice or creativity in creating a character. That's independent of the POV of the narrative. Both his "good" and "bad" examples are in second person. It seems it's all the extra detail ("goblin woman, cut off from goblin society...") that bothers him.
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Old 05-01-2019, 08:57 PM   #5
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Default Re: Roleplaying as a second person narrative

How do you word choose your paragraph choices in the 1st or 3rd point of view?

I have a character driven story to tell because of certain factors mirrored between this specific player character and the setting background. Hence it is important that she follow a general path until she encounters a decision point reached by another before her.
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Old 05-02-2019, 02:33 AM   #6
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Default Re: Roleplaying as a second person narrative

Quote:
Originally Posted by hcobb View Post
I have a character driven story to tell because of certain factors mirrored between this specific player character and the setting background. Hence it is important that she follow a general path until she encounters a decision point reached by another before her.
Having played multiple CYOAs over the years, I don't see a problem with the second person narration on its own. It works OK when the character is predefined (like in Choice by Gaslight, where the PC is a citizen of fantasy-not-English_Empire implied to be of fantasy-not-Indian blood/appearance), it works OK when the character is created by the player (like in Empyrean), it works OK when the character is absolutely vague (like in Congresswolf). The only part I've found jarring is using a 'chargen mirror', where the character examines itself in the mirror as the player is making choices about what the character is like (the only example I can think of right now is in Killing Time).

That being said, it's generally advisable to start giving meaningful choices early on to avoid looking like 'just' a book.
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Old 05-02-2019, 06:12 AM   #7
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Default Re: Roleplaying as a second person narrative

Advantage of the online bit is that I can "keep score" of how the PC treats NPCs and reflect that back in how the NPCs address the PC.
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Old 05-02-2019, 08:50 PM   #8
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Default Re: Roleplaying as a second person narrative

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormcrow View Post
The ones I found that worked best were the ones that kept details of my second-person self vague. I can be male, female, or something else, I can be tall or short, white or black, living or mechanical, young or old, and it doesn't change the story. The author has to sacrifice these sorts of details to do this, though.
For books with a more roleplaying bent (like the old Fighting Fantasy series), you could go this way by keeping many character creation choices entirely in the background. You could instead account for them in the form of story branches.

If you are an Dwarf, go to 143. Otherwise, go to 79.

Roll Nature Lore. If you get a 12 or higher (or are a Dryad), go to 27. If you fail, go to 419.
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Old 05-03-2019, 07:16 AM   #9
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Default Re: Roleplaying as a second person narrative

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Originally Posted by hcobb View Post
Hence it is important that she follow a general path until she encounters a decision point reached by another before her.
So, not really related to POV, but a plot constraint. The choices you present early on can't lead the plot astray from those mirroring events and that decision point. This makes the writing job a little harder, as you have to come up with some early decisions that will be relevant later, yet not throw the door open so wide that it breaks the story. So you have to find some elements that vary the story at least in perception and detail, but not so fundamental as to break the story. (You could also have some inconsequential decisions, but that's just filler.)

"If you choose to ignore the life of adventure and stay on the farm for the rest of your life, go to page 999..." CYOAs all railroad you to some degree. Any form of story does. The one adventure has finite resources and so isn't obliged to try and allow any choice by any character at any point. The author is inevitably pruning the tree before the reader starts, so you don't need to feel bad about the degree to which you have to prune that early stage.

Last edited by Anaraxes; 05-03-2019 at 07:22 AM.
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