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Old 02-27-2020, 04:03 PM   #31
hcobb
 
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Location: Pacheco, California
Default Re: A Legacy Edition version of Advantages of Great Strength

A dragon's biggest weapon is his belly.
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Old 02-28-2020, 03:32 AM   #32
Chris Rice
 
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Default Re: A Legacy Edition version of Advantages of Great Strength

TFT isn't GURPS. It wasn't meant to be a complex system that tries to model reality too closely. It was meant to be fast, simple and fun.

If you look at the monster stats from the ITL rule book (p77 onwards), you can start to discern the pattern of how ST relates to Damage. It's fairly loose, but it is there. Examples:

Demon ST 100 Damage 4 dice
Dragon ST 100 Damage 4 dice
Dragon ST 60 Damage 3 dice
Demon ST 50 Damage 2 dice
Dragon ST 30 Damage 2 dice
Giant ST 30+ Damage 3+3 club

So it's not exactly linear but you can see a rough pattern:

Light weapons 1 dice (ST <20)
Medium weapons 2 dice (ST<30)
Heavy Weapons 3 dice (ST<50-60)
Super Heavy 4 dice (ST 100)

There are no weapons or creatures that do 5 dice damage.

Since ST governs both the damage a creature can do and the damage it can inflict, you're a bit limited in what you can do and that is reflected in the rules. But the rules work as they area.

If I wanted to design a creature that was able to absorb a huge amount of damage but couldn't cause great wounds, say like a giant slime or something; I could give it ST 100 but only 1 dice damage. Conversely if I wanted something that could dish out a huge amounts of damage but wasn't tough to kill I could give it ST 20 but 4 dice damage.

I think the game works if you bear these simple guidelines in mind and don't try to make things too linear or exact.
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Old 02-28-2020, 08:48 AM   #33
larsdangly
 
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Default Re: A Legacy Edition version of Advantages of Great Strength

A 'scorpion' or other catapult does '4 or 5' dice of damage.
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Old 02-29-2020, 01:37 PM   #34
Skarg
 
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Default Re: A Legacy Edition version of Advantages of Great Strength

Sure, as always, players who don't care about details don't have to care, and can just use whatever and hand-wave things, and that's fine.

Just because some of us look at, or are interested in, more detail, doesn't mean we're trying to make anyone else do so.

I don't think your pattern actually holds if you do more complete plotting of ST vs damage. That's why we were bringing up and discussing the standouts.

The ST 100 monsters are few, but clearly are weak on the scale, though as we wrote above, that's probably partly because monsters' bodies and weapons are different from humans, and since damage is just listed rather than calculated, the ST is mostly only used to determine how hard they are to kill (and which spells they are immune to, and how good they are at pushing through smaller figures, doors, carrying large weights, etc).

For other examples that don't fit the pattern suggested a couple of posts earlier:

Halfling ST 4 damage 1d (2-handed maul)
Giant Scorpion ST 20+ damage 1 die (0 vs. armor 3+)
Giant ST 40 damage 4d+4
Giant ST 50 damage 5d+5
Giant ST 60 damage 6d+6
original halberd charge ST 13 damage 4d
original pike axe charge ST 15 damage 4d+4
Legacy cavalry lance charge ST 13 damage 4d+1
original cavalry lance charge ST 13 damage 6d+2
Troll ST 30 damage 2d
Troll ST 40 damage 2d
Troll ST 50 damage 2d
Troll ST 60 damage 2d
Legacy PC gargoyle ST 13 damage 2d
Gargoyle ST 20 damage 2d


As for Demons which supposedly fit the above pattern, well RAW they're self-contradictory since they can use weapons, which will do more damage for a ST 50 demon, or less damage for a ST 100 demon, OR they can use clubs for much more damage in either case (which makes no sense since clubs should be weaker than actual weapons):
Demon ST 50 Damage 2d
Demon w. weapon ST 50 Damage 3d+1
Demon w. club ST 50 Damage 3d+5
Demon ST 100 Damage 4d
Demon w. weapon ST 100 Damage 3d+1
Demon w. club ST 100 Damage 8d+5


Let's compare dragons to humans with the IQ 7 brawling talent, not even assuming the GM lets them do "dirty" +2 because that's pretty extreme:
Dragon ST 12 damage 1d-1
Dragon ST 16 damage 1d
Dragon ST 30 damage 2d-2
Dragon ST 60 damage 2d
Dragon ST 100 damage 2d+2
Human brawler ST 12 damage 1d-1 (HTH 1d)
Human brawler ST 16 damage 1d+1 (HTH 1d+2)
Human brawler ST 30 damage 1d+3 (HTH 1d+4)

Yep, humans with even a +1 from Brawling or Unarmed Combat 1, do MORE damage than a dragon of the same ST.

Last edited by Skarg; 02-29-2020 at 05:42 PM.
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Old 03-01-2020, 08:25 PM   #35
hcobb
 
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Default Re: A Legacy Edition version of Advantages of Great Strength

Just have each level of toughness negate one point of Armor -DX and one point of Armor -MA.

You can buy infinite levels of toughness, but the ST requirement scales by the size of your figure.

Man sized or smaller: first level at ST 12 then +2 ST thereafter.
Large One hex figure: first level at ST 15 then +3 ST thereafter.
Two hex figure: first level at ST 16 then +4 ST thereafter.
Three hex figure: first level at ST 18 then +6 ST thereafter.

And so on. Each level of toughness costs only two memory points.

So a ST 18 human pays 8 memory points for four levels of toughness and is then at full MA and no DX reduction for Fine Plate armor, with a total of 10 hits per attack ignored. (A ST 24 Reptile Person could do the same, or a ST 36 Giant.)
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