Mental Disadvantage stacking - Good Christian BSA Scout Master

[LokRobster]

When it comes to building characters with a lot of overlapping "self-imposed" disadvantages, I'm curious as to what others think about what to count as points and what is actually covered by other disadvantages and shouldn't be 'double-dipped' for additional negative points.

Specifically, consider an extremely patriotic, active Christian [from one of the more strict 'temperate' sects], and a conscientious and devoted Boy Scout leader. He's not perfect, and knows it, but truly attempts to live up to all the BSA ideals and emulate true christian charity and Christ-like behavior to his fellow-man...

[-15] Fanaticism: America
[-15] Fanaticism: "True" Christian

[-20] Honesty [CR ~6 or less]
[-10] Selfless [CR ~6 or less]
[-22] Charitable [CR ~9 or less]

[-10] Code of Honor: Boy Scout*
[-15] Pacifism: Self-Defense Only
[-15] Sense of Duty: [Entire Race]
[-5] Vow, Minor: [Chastity, abstain from alchohol/drugs]


I know that many of these overlap, or technically should be covered by just one -15 Fanaticism [?] - or just take the individual concepts that are separate and not take any Fanaticism? How many disadvantage points should this mental outlook and actions in life count as?

*[Boy Scout Oath/Law/Motto: On my honor, I will do my best, I will do my duty, to God and my Country; to help other people at all times; to obey the Scout Law. I will keep myself physically strong, mentally awake, and morally straight. A Scout is Trustworthy, Loyal, Helpful, Friendly, Courteous, Kind, Obedient, Cheerful, Thrifty, Clean, Brave and Reverent. Do a Good Turn Daily.]

Thanks for your input -

[kenclary]

Originally Posted by LokRobster

*[Boy Scout Oath/Law/Motto: On my honor, I will do my best, I will do my duty, to God and my Country; to help other people at all times; to obey the Scout Law. I will keep myself physically strong, mentally awake, and morally straight. A Scout is Trustworthy, Loyal, Helpful, Friendly, Courteous, Kind, Obedient, Cheerful, Thrifty, Clean, Brave and Reverent. Do a Good Turn Daily.]

PoI: "Do a good turn daily" is the Scout slogan. The motto is "Be prepared."

[RyanW]

I would say that most characters should not have more than one Fanaticism, since most people who follow two philosophies will just combine them (cf. Christian nationalism). In any event, this person is a bit extreme. Willing, perhaps even eager, to lay down his life for his country, his religion, or his fellow man. He would starve to death in a refrigerator if the food didn't belong to him. He spends every penny he earns on charity.

[Mailanka]

When it comes to several potentially overlapping disadvantages (for example, in my samurai game, Fanaticism vs Code of Honor(Bushido)), I generally recommend picking one and sticking with it. Honesty, Fanaticism (America) and the Boyscout CoH all do similar things so, if you were in my game, I would ask why he does what he does, and pick that disad. For example, in this case, I think he's honest and loves his country because of his Boyscout CoH and needs none of the others. In fact, his CoH probably covers the majority of what you're trying to do here. I could see picking on a few more disads to round out additional limitations (he might still be a fanatical christian, and he still might be Charitable, and so on). The rest can be covered in quirks.

This is sort of a classic case of why we include Disad limits. This character, as written, is cripplingly difficult to play, violating multiple disads every time he steps out of line.

(And also note that a guy with Fanaticism (Christian) is not a "good christian." He's a christian extremist willing to go to any length, any length at all, to advance and protect his faith. If you want him to be a guy who goes to church every Sunday and takes the tenants of his faith seriously, that's probably good for a quirk, and perhaps a dash of things like Truthfulness and/or Honesty (though a "good christian" might violate the law of the land if that law violated his beliefs. For example, if the country he lives in outlawed christianity, he would be unlikely to abandon his faith))

[Gold & Appel Inc]

Originally Posted by LokRobster

[-15] Fanaticism: America
[-15] Fanaticism: "True" Christian

Yeah, I'd eliminate both of these, or at a maximum knock it down to Fanaticism (Christian Nationalism) [-15]. Even then, he'll come off as a somewhat crazy person even to people who agree.

Originally Posted by LokRobster

[-20] Honesty [CR ~6 or less]

I've said it before and I'll say it again: The vast majority of law-abiding people do not have Honesty in GURPS terms, even at Quirk level. This guy cares too much about other people to harm them or violate their rights under normal circumstances, but if the rubber really met the road and those principles came into conflict with the letter of the law, which way do you think he's gonna jump?

Originally Posted by LokRobster

[-10] Selfless [CR ~6 or less]
[-22] Charitable [CR ~9 or less]
[-15] Sense of Duty: [Entire Race]

Triple-dipping, IMHO. Pick the flavor that fits best.

Originally Posted by LokRobster

[-10] Code of Honor: Boy Scout*

This looks good to me, if he's really serious about living his life by those standards.

Originally Posted by LokRobster

[-5] Vow, Minor: [Chastity, abstain from alchohol/drugs]

Chastity? Most "good Christians" (other than Catholic clergy) are expected (nay, commanded) to marry and produce more good Christians, last time I checked...

Originally Posted by LokRobster

[-15] Pacifism: Self-Defense Only

This might be a trait held by an individual hardcore Scoutmaster, but is in no way necessary for one. Can't Harm Innocents, sure, probably, but there is a distinct pro-violence culture in many troops.

[trooper6]

I don't think Sense of Duty: Entire Human Race is compatible with Fanatacism: America.

The minute the US starts bombing some country and ends up killing civilians...he's going to have problems.

[IrishRover]

Fanatics are rarely people that don't seem crazy--IMVHO, that's part of the disadvantage. Fanatics can acomplish great and terrible things, but are seldom people you want to be around--even if they're on your side.

Personally, I'd disallow a really tough self control number for any disadvantage not related to the fanaticism, as Fanaticism implies that the cause comes first, above and beyond anything else at all.

[Fwibos]

Originally Posted by LokRobster

When it comes to building characters with a lot of overlapping "self-imposed" disadvantages, I'm curious as to what others think about what to count as points and what is actually covered by other disadvantages and shouldn't be 'double-dipped' for additional negative points.

Specifically, consider an extremely patriotic, active Christian [from one of the more strict 'temperate' sects], and a conscientious and devoted Boy Scout leader. He's not perfect, and knows it, but truly attempts to live up to all the BSA ideals and emulate true christian charity and Christ-like behavior to his fellow-man...

[-15] Fanaticism: America
[-15] Fanaticism: "True" Christian

[-20] Honesty [CR ~6 or less]
[-10] Selfless [CR ~6 or less]
[-22] Charitable [CR ~9 or less]

[-10] Code of Honor: Boy Scout*
[-15] Pacifism: Self-Defense Only
[-15] Sense of Duty: [Entire Race]
[-5] Vow, Minor: [Chastity, abstain from alchohol/drugs]


I know that many of these overlap, or technically should be covered by just one -15 Fanaticism [?] - or just take the individual concepts that are separate and not take any Fanaticism? How many disadvantage points should this mental outlook and actions in life count as?

*[Boy Scout Oath/Law/Motto: On my honor, I will do my best, I will do my duty, to God and my Country; to help other people at all times; to obey the Scout Law. I will keep myself physically strong, mentally awake, and morally straight. A Scout is Trustworthy, Loyal, Helpful, Friendly, Courteous, Kind, Obedient, Cheerful, Thrifty, Clean, Brave and Reverent. Do a Good Turn Daily.]

Thanks for your input -

Depending on the game world, any of these can become OPH or Delusion.*

But I think a Code Of Honor (Boy Scout) includes Honesty, Selfless Nationalism, Christian Behavior and even the vow. It's fairly restrictive, but they likely wouldn't risk death, so slap it at -15 and call it a day.

Alternatively, you can set it as a vow: From [-20], t psycho Uberboiskout to [-5], the Eagle Scout who works for an insurance company.


*I have intolerance: fanatical goody-goodies, so I could be bias :P

[Rasmus Wagner]

Yeah, as other have said, fanaticism towards the well-known (and utterly vile) American Fundie "Christian" Nationalism doesn't combine well (or at all) with SoD: Humanity.

[Flyndaran]

But real people have many contradictory beliefs.