Some TL8-9 weapon ideas & stats

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by Anthony

Well, forcing people to wear armor is militarily useful, but yes, useful armor against fragmentation is late TL 7.

TL9 has full body armor v. fragmentation. Even at tL8 you still lose people to fragentation even if it doesn't pentrate Head or Torso armor.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by Nightrider_88

And then I was thinking: why don't apply some of melee weapons options to fragments, as far as they use cutting damage? Like, for example, "superfine fragments" at TL9 with (2) armor divisor and "hyperdense fragments" at TL11.
At least then light fragments they will be able to deal with light armor.
)

For things that are literally "fragments" this wouldn't work. Perhaps if they were projectiles like the ball bearings in a claymore but then you have the problem of making your "fragments" fly point/edge forward.

Even with a (2) armor divisor 2D fragments don't seriously threaten even the DR20 Tac Suit. 2D (5) Hyperdense fragments don't threaten a TL11 Tac Suit with its' DR 40. Against a TL11 Military Cybersuit with its' DR 80 even the 5D(5) hyperdense fragments from a 100mm warhead are only a minimal threat. You don't waste a 100mm warhead on randomly speckling enemy soldiers with 1 and 2 pt cut wounds anyway.

Even using very large concussive explosions to do Blunt Trauma to people in flexible armor only forces enemy soldiers to wear rigid armor.

TL9+ is the time to use smart weapons and individually target your enemies rather than trying to randomly perforate their epidermises. Or hey, just nuke them all.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

For things that are literally "fragments" this wouldn't work. Perhaps if they were projectiles like the ball bearings in a claymore but then you have the problem of making your "fragments" fly point/edge forward.

It's probably possible to make flechette fragments, but I suspect cluster bombs would do a better job.

[clu2415]

Originally Posted by Anthony

It's probably possible to make flechette fragments, but I suspect cluster bombs would do a better job.

So you want a TL9 version of the CBU-97. 25mm SEFOP dealing 5dx3 (3) should do great. The only question is how many submunitions you can fit in various size missiles.

[Joseph Paul]

I think the range advantage is overblown in both guided and homing versions of the 25mm rounds. The Aim maneuver for both generally requires the firer to see the target and that uses the range penalties. 2000 yards is -19 so good luck with IDing a target to let the round loose on. What are the possible modifiers for target camo and heat signature at TL9 and TL10?

[Nightrider_88]

Well, Rheinmetall airburst 40mm greandes use tungsten balls. I wonder, if they are better at penetration of... targets. Plus, with more powerful explosives fragments should fly faster...
But we still stuck with same 2d for 40mm at any TL.

Then, anybody remember DIME? Tungsten "dust" instead of fragments.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dense_...etal_Explosive

Then... shell case with many cavities, which produces many small EFPs instead of fragments. But I doubt that they can be made in 25mm)

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Nightrider_88

Well, Rheinmetall airburst 40mm greandes use tungsten balls. I wonder, if they are better at penetration of... targets.

At the same mass and velocity, tungsten will be better than steel or lead, but I wouldn't think it would be worth the extra cost. The root problem is that shrapnel just isn't very powerful and, not being stabilized, is forced into configurations that have poor performance against armor (it's sort of like using tungsten shot in a shotgun; 1d(2) still won't penetrate level IIa armor).

[Nightrider_88]

Considering, that smaller EFP at TL9 supposed to be 15mm SEFOP, I suppose that 64mm warhead with many 15mm EFPs instead of fragments, placed like this, can work.
http://sun9-2.userapi.com/c858436/v8...O7RkdHtxds.jpg
But 40mm, probably too small for this.

Oh! I got it. Why not use TL10 Force warheads to create hypervelocity
shrapnel in case you absolutely need collateral damage?)

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by Nightrider_88

C

Oh! I got it. Why not use TL10 Force warheads to create hypervelocity
shrapnel in case you absolutely need collateral damage?)

It would only work well in vacuum but wihout air to slow fragments down any fragments would do more damage and have much greater range. Of course, those fragments should do P and probably P- instead of Cut damage.

In atmosphere any projectile without supersonic streamlining and stabilization will not maintain supersonic velocity for any significant distance.

Note that those 15mm SEFOPs only do 4D(2) Imp. That is useful against TL9 Tac Suits but not TL9 Combat Hardsuits and certainly not any form of Powered Armor.

If I was using 15mm armor piercing warheads I'd put them on guided Gyrocs and hang them from little pylons on an Aerial Scout Robot as seen on p.80 of UT and mini-airstrike hostiles one at a time. I'd use APEX rather than SEFOP though. That'd give me 6D(2) with a small follow-up explosion. That still wouldn't penetrate the Torso of a Combat Hardsuit but it would the limb armor.

It is my estimate that with mature TL9 as presented in UT area bombardment with artillery shells or unguided rockets v. Troops of a major power equipped with TL9 armor has gone the way of the arbaliest in terms of military usefulness with the possible except of very large Thermobaric warheads and, of course nukes.

[Nightrider_88]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

Note that those 15mm SEFOPs only do 4D(2) Imp. That is useful against TL9 Tac Suits but not TL9 Combat Hardsuits and certainly not any form of Powered Armor.

I would imagine it as HEDP round. SEFOPs are replacing cutting fragmetation damage and works as area-effect damage against light-armored infantry, while power armor and vehicles require direct hit.
Probably, when used as part of 64mm warhead, SEFOPs can be a bit more powerful and thus do some damage to power armor too.