32 point wizard vs 1st Level D&D Wizard

[amenditman]

Originally Posted by Rolando

Making comparisons of power level of characters is like comparing star wars characters to 40k characters... this doesn't stop anyone though.

I would have said it was like comparing star wars characters to star trek characters, but that would just be for the groans of true fans everywhere being outraged.

[hcobb]

Translating this character into TFT: https://dungeonsmaster.com/wp-conten...f-wizard-1.pdf

Sample, Elf wizard, age 20
ST 6, DX 12, IQ 14, MA 12
Talents: Alertness, Literacy
Spells include: 3-Hex Fire, Blur, Detect Magic, Light, Lightning, Sleep, Staff, Telekinesis
Languages: Common, Elvish
Weapon: Staff elm maul (1d), untalented silver dagger (1d-1)
Attacks and Damage: Punch (1d-4)

The Staff and Fire spells cover a lot of the effects of the other spells from D&D. Alertness isn't free for elves, but very useful, even if it costs the Knife talent. This character aspires to the Scholar talent to be the listed "Sage", but hasn't learned it yet. (Minor Illusion would be covered by the Image spell, if you drop something else to cover it. Blur stands in for "Mage Armor".)

[larsdangly]

There is such a huge difference between TFT and D&D in the power of available spells that it is not easy to compare them, no matter what algorithm you try to use. e.g., a first level D&D character can cast a sleep spell that will knock out up to 16 orcs (or other 1HD beings) spanning a significant area, making it a 'one shot' tool for winning big, challenging skirmishes. There are many, many examples of this sort. Even the 7-hex versions of TFT spells of this sort are not nearly this powerful, and you don't expect to see any but the most experienced characters casting them.

And the issue is not one sided: TFT wizards are much more capable as enchanters, alchemists, and illusionists (because of the low cost and utility of basic image and illusion spells), and their combinations of small but useful magics make them much better 'magical thieves' and 'magical scouts'.

So, I don't think any generalizations can be drawn. Except that high level D&D wizards are unrivaled in TFT or most any other game. Personally, I consider that a feature rather than a problem - very experienced/old, powerful wizards should be nearly god-like in my book. D&D is the only game that delivers on that expectation.

[Shostak]

Originally Posted by larsdangly

Except that high level D&D wizards are unrivaled in TFT or most any other game. Personally, I consider that a feature rather than a problem - very experienced/old, powerful wizards should be nearly god-like in my book. D&D is the only game that delivers on that expectation.

Ars Magica? GURPS Realm Magic or Ritual Path Magic?

[Hrothgar Rannúlfr]

Originally Posted by pzmcgwire

Back in the days of yore, it was clear a 32 point Wizard would easily outclass a level 1 AD&D wizard which had only 1 spell a day.

In 5th edition, a level 1 wizard has 3 cantrips (lesser spells) that can be used without limit, and 2 spell slots for the 6 possible spells in their starting spell book.

A little bit more evenly matched between the starting character types now, but it seems that high level magic users in D&D will greatly outclass high level TFT wizards.

To me, the magic systems are so different as to make meaningful comparisons difficult, especially if one accepts the idea that the nature of the world governs what sort of magic will even function.

For example, in my own rpg multiverse, TFT magic wouldn't work in a DnD world and DnD magic wouldn't work in a TFT world.

For warriors, I've generally settled on the idea that a 1st level DnD Fighter is a 32 point TFT Warrior and each DnD level is worth about 2 TFT attribute points. Though I could see an argument for making a 1st level DnD character equivalent to a higher attribute point total in TFT, depending upon what edition of DnD is under consideration. Likewise with the attribute value of each additional DnD level.

I don't think it matters all that much unless trying to do a faithful conversion from one system to the other. But, even then, I prefer to go more by feel than a more scientific conversion.

[hcobb]

TFT wizards need to be compared against the creatures in their own setting.

How much XP does a TFT wizard need to curbstomp a fully adult dragon of seven-hex size?

[phiwum]

Originally Posted by hcobb

TFT wizards need to be compared against the creatures in their own setting.

How much XP does a TFT wizard need to curbstomp a fully adult dragon of seven-hex size?

I don't think a single wizard will be curbstomping a dragon with any reasonable amount of XP. Do you have some sort of curbstomping wizard design in mind?

(he asks cautiously and with some premature regret already...)

[hcobb]

Originally Posted by phiwum

I don't think a single wizard will be curbstomping a dragon with any reasonable amount of XP. Do you have some sort of curbstomping wizard design in mind?

(he asks cautiously and with some premature regret already...)

What's the ground rules here? Is Gate + Calling + vivisection chamber off the menu?

[phiwum]

Originally Posted by hcobb

What's the ground rules here? Is Gate + Calling + vivisection chamber off the menu?

I'm not sure how your vivisection chamber works, but it would be a rare wizard who could create a gate without help.

Calling is, on the other hand, an excellent way to meet the dragon on your terms rather than his. Indeed, that may be an overpowered spell. You can avoid all sorts of difficulties with Calling. Sentries could be called off their posts and dispatched easily one at a time, for instance -- so long as the wizard has the ST and mana for this approach.

That's a good spell to discuss in Shostak's weekly thread!

Anyway, the notion that we could reasonably discuss whether a particular individual or party could take a dragon is usually too open-ended to take seriously. It all depends on the circumstances. The Calling spell, on the other hand, does give the wizard great latitude in picking the circumstances.

[hcobb]

If you can prevent the dragon from flying away then Illusion duplicate Staff to Snake at Staff III or above to exploit the dragon's low DX.