Should IQ Levels for Talents Be Reduced?

[KevinJ]

If you want to simulate UC V taking 45783 years of meditation and practice, just up the XP cost. I know some less than brilliant people who will mop the floor with most of the really smart people I know because they have been practicing [Enter martial art here] for 20-30 years. It's not about being a Genius, it's about putting in the time and doing the work.

[Chris Rice]

Originally Posted by KevinJ

If you want to simulate UC V taking 45783 years of meditation and practice, just up the XP cost. I know some less than brilliant people who will mop the floor with most of the really smart people I know because they have been practicing [Enter martial art here] for 20-30 years. It's not about being a Genius, it's about putting in the time and doing the work.

I see your point, but if you look closely at the description of UCV it represents an almost supernatural level of ability, including disabling nerve strikes; the sort of thing no real human can actually do effectively. So it's about far more than just fighting or training to fight. Of course, that's just the way I see it.

[JLV]

Erm...I studied Ninjutsu for a while... "Nerve strikes." Um, well, they're more like "ganglia strikes," and they work surprisingly well, at least when it comes to inflicting pain and paralyzing particular muscle groups (actually, it's more like causing a really bad cramp -- and I mean REALLY bad)...

Certainly, there are a few techniques that will disarm someone and/or cause them some serious muscle control issues, when properly applied. I understand that both Aikido and Jiu-jitsu do some very similar things. And I know that Ta'i Chi does.

[Chris Rice]

I studied under the controversial Tai Chi master Erle Montaigue, who was the first (as far as I know) Westerner to popularise "Dim Mak" or death point striking (I know George Dillman later did the same in America). These things are possible, but I doubt if many could make use of them in a real fight. My point was more that (a) these things take a lot of serious study and (b) they might as well be superpowers as far as "normal" people are concerned. That was why I didn't mind them having very high requirements to attain. If someone wants to mimic a champion MMA fighter then UC2 or at most UC3 is sufficient along with a high ST and DX.

[JLV]

My Ta'i Chi style was Wu, and my master was King Wun Chang, so yes, I understand your point very well. And it's a very valid point -- it takes a lot of practice and training. I was responding to the comment "...the sort of thing no real human can actually do effectively."

All I'm saying is that I've seen real humans do them; heck I even managed to a couple of times... ;-)

[Chris Rice]

Originally Posted by JLV

My Ta'i Chi style was Wu, and my master was King Wun Chang, so yes, I understand your point very well. And its a very valid point. I was responding to the comment "the sort of thing no real human can actually do effectively."

All I'm saying is that I've seen real humans do them; heck I even managed to a couple of times... ;-)

I've always been interested in Wu style, you were fortunate to be able to study. I have also seen these things done but only under controlled conditions, and I could do them under those as well. But in a real fight, that's another thing entirely, as I know only too well. I salute you, Tai Chi brother.

[KevinJ]

Originally Posted by Chris Rice

I've always been interested in Wu style, you were fortunate to be able to study. I have also seen these things done but only under controlled conditions, and I could do them under those as well. But in a real fight, that's another thing entirely, as I know only too well. I salute you, Tai Chi brother.

And how many of those who could do it were supergeniuses? Or could it be that they were just well educated and with lifetimes of experience?

Or perhaps it's because I'm daring to gore your sacred cow.

[JLV]

Originally Posted by Chris Rice

I've always been interested in Wu style, you were fortunate to be able to study. I have also seen these things done but only under controlled conditions, and I could do them under those as well. But in a real fight, that's another thing entirely, as I know only too well. I salute you, Tai Chi brother.

Well, we did them in actual sparring matches, not as a controlled demo, so it worked for us (the sparring was in Ninjutsu, not so much in Ta'i Chi, of course...), but maybe you would still consider the sparring matches to be "controlled," I don't know. Certainly we wore protective gear, but pretty much as long as you didn't try to maim or kill your opponent...

I did see and experience King Wun Chang using some actual nerve "pinches" to help us through some serious muscle pain we were suffering after one horrendous work out with swords though -- so interestingly enough, she knew enough about the nervous system to use it to relieve pain...

However, I feel like I'm hijacking this thread now, for which I sincerely apologize to the rest of you.

[Chris Rice]

Originally Posted by KevinJ

And how many of those who could do it were supergeniuses? Or could it be that they were just well educated and with lifetimes of experience?

Or perhaps it's because I'm daring to gore your sacred cow.

No, not at all. And I don't have a Sacred Cow. I can entirely see your point of view and it's perfectly acceptable to see these Talents as requiring lesser IQ. I certainly didn't see the "Masters" I studied with as "genius's in any way. They may have thought deeply about what they were doing and were independent thinkers but that's all. I also don't think that high IQ in TFT necessarily represents a "supergenius"