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Old 10-04-2018, 02:17 PM   #61
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Default Re: GURPS Dungeon Fantasy Monsters 4: Dragons

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Originally Posted by Pomphis View Post
But demons at least can have many things in common. For example:

Demon Template (15)
One fun thing to do with Demons/Elder things might some kind of mutation template; your character is striving to become (or infected by and thus becoming) something else, so instead of just buying new traits you replace old traits with new, demonic ones.
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Old 10-04-2018, 02:46 PM   #62
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Default Re: GURPS Dungeon Fantasy Monsters 4: Dragons

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By the way, thanks for all the great discussion! This was a quick writing project I did to bring GURPS Dungeon Fantasy up to speed with the DFRPG in terms of monsters . . . I didn't realize people liked dragons that much. Now I have to think of the next monster to put in the spotlight.
How about trolls? They're lovely and they've never received much love beyond Runequest.
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Old 10-04-2018, 03:03 PM   #63
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Default Re: GURPS Dungeon Fantasy Monsters 4: Dragons

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Demons and Elder Things get tricky because they're actually classes that span a huge range of beings, many of them already found in earlier volumes.
Maybe a book based off of Monsters 2 or DF5's divine servitor where you have a based type of the monster and than a la cart of options to spice things up? Like a Demon Lord, Demon Mook, Demon Stalker, etc etc with addons like hellfire or shadows. Not sure how much more or less work that would be, but you woundn't need a huge list of demons.
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Old 10-04-2018, 03:09 PM   #64
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Default Re: GURPS Dungeon Fantasy Monsters 4: Dragons

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Demons and Elder Things get tricky because they're actually classes that span a huge range of beings, many of them already found in earlier volumes.
I’ll go out on a limb and beg you not to make supplements for Demons and Elder Things, both for the reason you give and because there are already plenty. Faerie would be a much better class if you’re going that route. Constructs too.
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Old 10-04-2018, 03:39 PM   #65
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Default Re: GURPS Dungeon Fantasy Monsters 4: Dragons

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I’ll go out on a limb and beg you not to make supplements for Demons and Elder Things, both for the reason you give and because there are already plenty. Faerie would be a much better class if you’re going that route. Constructs too.
I agree that faeries would be a great book but I would say that in my game world demons are probably the main boss monsters in my dungeons along with undead. I think for me a book about demons would be very useful.
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Old 10-04-2018, 04:55 PM   #66
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Default Re: GURPS Dungeon Fantasy Monsters 4: Dragons

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One of the oddities of RPGing is that the titular Dragons in "Dungeons and Dragons" are steered I think by the "epic" model of dragons. Smaug, who was as much a force of nature as anything else; the dragon from DragonSlayer. These are EPIC threats, and while I may be misremembering, the original dragons from the old Monster Manual didn't have a volume knob that tuned down to "widdle biddy dwagon." You got awesome red dragons with fire breath, and oh, of course there's Tiamat - who some nasty GM threw at a bunch of 1st level characters in the eponymous D&D cartoon. Of course, that same GM gave those 1st level characters artifact-level magic items, too. So YMMV.
I don't recall how the original D&D did dragons, but AD&D1 had them get a fixed number of HP per hit die based on age. Thus a red dragon (10 hit dice) had 10HP as a 'hatchling' (1hp/die) to 80HP (8hp/die) as an ancient dragon. Their breath did their (base, not current) HP in damage, save for half, three breaths a day. I have a feeling their melee damage was fixed, or only had minor adjustments. They saved, and I think made attacks as a creature of their hit dice, or of HP/4 dice, whichever was best.

Thus, AD&D1 did have little dragons, but they weren't that little, or weak, even when very young. On the other hand, even the biggest were very beatable by a party of reasonable level. The result was Dragonlance, where they're used as mounts in armies, because big, tough, scary, flying mounts is about the right level of awesomeness for dragons as presented in AD&D1 - they're not house cats or even leopards, but they're not forces of nature, either.

In AD&D2 they got a massive buff, having many more hit dice and hit points, and a lot more attacks when older (wing buffets, etc.). In D&D3 they got the "a dragon for every party" treatment with young dragons being quite small and a reasonable boss monster for a low-level party, and the oldest being scary for quite high level parties (if run intelligently by the GM - high level casters in D&D3.x were pretty god-like, making anything not run carefully by the GM into pushovers).
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Old 10-04-2018, 05:12 PM   #67
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Default Re: GURPS Dungeon Fantasy Monsters 4: Dragons

Wrote a review. Overall, pretty goodish.
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Old 10-04-2018, 06:54 PM   #68
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Default Re: GURPS Dungeon Fantasy Monsters 4: Dragons

It's a bit hard to come up with monsters that have the popularity of dragons, and have consistent enough abilities that you can sensibly stat them up. I suspect your next best bet is Undead.
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Old 10-04-2018, 09:00 PM   #69
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Default Re: GURPS Dungeon Fantasy Monsters 4: Dragons

If there is a book about undead or demons one thing I think is useful is that undead or demons often have Infernal powers which can be compromised by Resistance to Evil Powers. A demon or undead might have learned to be able to cast spells using mana and (if the demon or undead is intelligent) willl use mana magic against holy warriors and clerics but use Infernal powers against everyone else because holy clerics and holy warriors usually have Resistance to Evil Powers.
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Old 10-04-2018, 11:45 PM   #70
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Default Re: GURPS Dungeon Fantasy Monsters 4: Dragons

I'll throw out "Humanoids" as a suggestion for the pile of options available for the next book.
- Trolls
- Ogres
- Orcs, Orks, Uruks, Orkz ........
- Goblins, Hobgoblins, there are a few different flavours.
- Centauroids(?)
- Insectoids
- Hybrids, so many different varieties available.
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