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Old 08-16-2018, 02:43 AM   #21
swordtart
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Default Re: Arena Building and Impostor Syndrome

I haven't done CW at conventions so I cannot comment directly but I have done historical sword fighting displays at large venues, so I have some parallel experience of the "How long before someone calls me out" syndrome.

Firstly you need to remember that you may not be better than the best, but if you are better than the majority then you are still ONE of the best. One of the best isn't a fake by any definition.

Secondly engage with the "competition" and you might be surprised by the esteem they hold your work in (everyone sees the faults in their own work). I was once told that my display was the inspiration for some other guys display that I thought was far better than mine. They are my legacy.

Thirdly (and this is specifically for games) some display games look great but they can impede play. I played WH40K once on a cityscape that took the bloke who made it months. It was beautiful wholly canon, but there wasn't enough space to put the figures! CW is a top down game for a reason. Recall that SJG don't sell full 3d maps as part of the official product line.

If the theory that 2d games don't impress people at conventions is correct then you are not letting SJG down (I am sure they would tell you if you were).

If there is any competition then it is there to drive improvement, but I suspect the many attendees of these various conventions probably do not compare the arenas side by side anyway.

Decide who you are building for and aim to please that person. If you fail to please others then so be it, you can't please all the people (even some of the time, let alone all of the time).

If it is because you enjoy the build then enjoy the build and value the inspiration to keep building.

If it is to promote the game and draw in new players then simply being at a convention ticks that box (and your impressive arena is purely a means to sell your game to convention organisers). If you are securing places at conventions then you are winning.

If it is to be King of the Hill... well there is always going to be a loser in that match and odds are eventually it will be you (since every iteration will be an improvement and you will always see the "glaring" flaws in your own work). Take your "loss" philosophically and use it as the impetus to improve for next time.

In time this too will pass.
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Old 08-18-2018, 06:34 PM   #22
TheAmishStig
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Lancaster, PA
Default Re: Arena Building and Impostor Syndrome

Quote:
Originally Posted by swordtart View Post
I haven't done CW at conventions so I cannot comment directly but I have done historical sword fighting displays at large venues, so I have some parallel experience of the "How long before someone calls me out" syndrome.

In time this too will pass.
Same general principles apply...there's always going to be that person you look at and go "Wow, I'm completely outclassed..."

I'm feeling mostly better now, or at least I've managed to go mostly numb to the idea. There's a pretty drastic change in how good it looks just from getting primer on some of the parts...but with as long as it's taking, I'm racing against the clock. At least spraypaint will go on quicker than brush-on, that should help.
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Old 08-19-2018, 11:49 AM   #23
Magesmiley
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Snohomish, WA
Default Re: Arena Building and Impostor Syndrome

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Originally Posted by TheAmishStig View Post
Same general principles apply...there's always going to be that person you look at and go "Wow, I'm completely outclassed..."

I'm feeling mostly better now, or at least I've managed to go mostly numb to the idea. There's a pretty drastic change in how good it looks just from getting primer on some of the parts...but with as long as it's taking, I'm racing against the clock. At least spraypaint will go on quicker than brush-on, that should help.
Yep. Color does wonders for the appearance. Don't forget to give it a clear coat of spray enamel after too - it greatly reduces the chipping issues.

Also one more bit of advice, don't use black for the arena floor (I use a dark gray). If you ever go to clear acrylics bases for your dropped weapons, oil will be hard to see if you use black. (Astute observes of my prior pictures will note that the arena floor for Rainbow Bay underwent a color change after its first outing).

I can relate to the time pressure though. I'm in touch-up and convention prep mode myself. Dragonflight is in 5 days.
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Old 08-19-2018, 12:19 PM   #24
TheAmishStig
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Lancaster, PA
Default Re: Arena Building and Impostor Syndrome

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Originally Posted by Magesmiley View Post
Yep. Color does wonders for the appearance. Don't forget to give it a clear coat of spray enamel after too - it greatly reduces the chipping issues.

Also one more bit of advice, don't use black for the arena floor (I use a dark gray). If you ever go to clear acrylics bases for your dropped weapons, oil will be hard to see if you use black. (Astute observes of my prior pictures will note that the arena floor for Rainbow Bay underwent a color change after its first outing).

I can relate to the time pressure though. I'm in touch-up and convention prep mode myself. Dragonflight is in 5 days.
Thank you for helping me dodge a bullet...swapped the Behr stuff for spraypaint yesterday. The time killer is that this primer is brush-on [MDF sucked up even the spraypaint primer and swelled] plus an hour between recoats / 24 to full cure. Combined with being such a wet, humid summer, it's been slow going. Hopefully will have all the priming done by Labor Day, that gives me all of September to paint.

The laminator is working wonders, so once I get more envelopes I can take the game aids to the next level too I hope.
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Old 09-10-2018, 07:17 PM   #25
TheAmishStig
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Lancaster, PA
Default Re: Arena Building and Impostor Syndrome

Over the past month the weather really hasn't cooperated, but I wanted to show you guys what I've been up to.

This is one one of the 4"x4" "fill in the gap" tiles, fresh out of paint...with one of my 2X cars, a "Paint" token [Flourescent Blue], a Car Wars @ 1D4con 2017 commemorative token [Translucent Green], and an Ogre @ 1D4con 2017 commemorative token [Translucent Blue] on top of it.

Hammered Black:
https://i.imgur.com/3Xt2JCq.jpg

Hammered Pewter:
https://i.imgur.com/8UXIT0e.jpg

The Black looks fantastic under the cars, but like Magesmiley noted in another thread it's a bit too dark...as much as I want to use it, I would have to find some black plastic / etc to make sure things like Oil and Smoke [which would be opaque black and translucent gray or translucent white, respectively] wouldn't disappear on it. I'm pretty sure the lighter shade is going to be the way to go, but figured it's worth some second opinions.
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Old 09-20-2018, 02:15 PM   #26
syncrogt1
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Default Re: Arena Building and Impostor Syndrome

You know who really has this stuff down is the train diorama guys, have you all seen their work? Wow.
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Old 09-23-2018, 10:21 AM   #27
Magesmiley
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Snohomish, WA
Default Re: Arena Building and Impostor Syndrome

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Originally Posted by syncrogt1 View Post
You know who really has this stuff down is the train diorama guys, have you all seen their work? Wow.
One of the big differences to keep in mind though is that the train dioramas don't have to endure players touching things constantly. Really cool looking stuff can be made for Car Wars pretty easily, but stuff that stands up to the rigors of play may be even more important.

It's also a reason that you have to put some thought into your materials and components. A battlefield that requires constant repair isn't going to be as useful as one that stands up. And it often takes time to iron out the wrinkles.

It took me several years of players playing, smacking, bumping, dropping things, and leaning on stuff to get my Rainbow Bay arena to the point where I don't have to do very much. I built it out of plywood in four sections, which helps with the durability but had other drawbacks (weight being a big one).

My KEAR Coliseum is still undergoing evolution - I'm not satisfied with some things about it still. And it has already been through about 20 games and well over a hundred players.
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Old 09-23-2018, 01:31 PM   #28
TheAmishStig
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Lancaster, PA
Default Re: Arena Building and Impostor Syndrome

I'm so close it hurts...6 pieces need their "floor" color applied [two coats, one top and one bottom], 3 need their obstacles painted, and a bunch need clear coat. Also should start building the fence, bought a bunch of project panels specifically to avoid working with MDF again.

My big regret so far is not building overspray into the masking. A few pieces have exposed primer, so there's dark-and-color-and...line of white. Should go back and respray, but masking for that is going to be an SOB. Might spray into a container or something to get liquid to brush on instead, or find some of my minis acrylics that are 'close enough'.

Will put up pictures of half of it once I'm done...that's all that fits on the dining room table.

Unlike Magesmiley, mine is more than 4 pieces...his way is objectively better and I'd recommend anyone doing a new built starting tomorrow to go that route, mine makes some...oft-annoying compromises to work around my storage / transport needs. If I ever get a minivan, I'm doing a from-scratch build with either 4 or 6 floor tiles and calling it a day.

I've learned a lot over the couple years I've been doing this, too...for example, if you do decide to go my route, go out of your way to standardize board sizes! It might mean having to be creative about obstacle placement [or construction], but the number of headaches you'll save by having three or four standard sizes is untold.

I kinda already want to pitch it and build again. Not because I'm unhappy with it...it worked fairly well in unpainted form, and is looking more encouraging the more I get painted...but because with each correction, change, or addition, MDF is becoming more trouble than it's worth. My tools lack the accuracy to get the tolerances down to +/- 1/16". Cleanup is a nightmare due to the dust. The 3+ layers of oil-based brush-on primers is a mind-numbing time sink. The weight is ridiculous...to the point I went out and sprung for a wheeled cart just to never have to pick the stupid thing up again.

And for what I want to do moving forward...a completely magnetic setup, no more wood glue...that would just make the weight worse. Considering the idea of a foam board sandwiched between thin sheet metal. Weight savings wouldn't be that much, but that'd allow me to magnetize and reduce the compacted size even further. Downside is project board is incredibly fragile, dunno how well it'll travel even with metal reinforcing it.
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Old 09-28-2018, 09:16 PM   #29
TheAmishStig
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Lancaster, PA
Default Re: Arena Building and Impostor Syndrome

Paint (at least for the play surface, the new walls are still being assembled) is done. Seeing the pieces set out on every flat surface, I have one very big regret...

...not taking more in-progress pictures. Taking the masking tape off the pieces that were multiple colors, it was like the movie trope of un-bandaging someone after cosmetic surgery. It was enough to make me fall in love with the build all over again.

I am going to re-cut some of the pieces. Or I suppose more accurately, cut more pieces. More empty tiles, more obstacle tiles, etc. But moving forward, I won't be doing any more permanently-mounted tiles. I have a bright idea, in that regard...the ones that are permanently mounted will remain so [unless I get a mill, and the tolerances get so tight what's there now gets frustrating], but all future ones will be removable.

Next steps: Getting all the pieces clear-coated, revising the gameplay aids, and scrounging up the money to get some acrylic turning keys cut.
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Old 09-29-2018, 06:47 AM   #30
Warphead's Battlewaggon
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Eire and England when I can
Default Re: Arena Building and Impostor Syndrome

All your stuff looks amazing so i wouldnt stress yourself. Best convention arena I think ive seen was Chernobyl Fallout Arena built up and around the steel dome a few years back. can't find link but imagine driving over this on the dome top with Hotwheels cars.
https://www.hwinfo.com/Chernobyl/mod...obyl_model.jpg
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