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08-12-2019, 12:27 PM   #871
Mark Skarr
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Re: Another 2000 Things I Am No Longer Allowed To Do In An RPG

Quote:
 Originally Posted by RogerBW Not all optimisations are equal. Having that many different coins means that you have to recognise the values of that many different coins, which might not automatically come under Intuitive Mathematician even if the adding-up does; so that part will take longer even if counting them out is quicker.
Yeah, having sixteen different types of coins you have to keep straight in your head is significantly harder and not optimal. It would make more optimization sense for their tax rates to fluctuate based on the listed value so transactions always ended with no change being required. Thus requiring no change ever be made. If the entire race has intuitive mathematician, they would be able to calculate the rates in their head, and it would reduce metal waste in the forms of unneeded coinage.

08-12-2019, 01:34 PM   #872
RyanW

Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Southeast NC
Re: Another 2000 Things I Am No Longer Allowed To Do In An RPG

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Mark Skarr Yeah, having sixteen different types of coins you have to keep straight in your head is significantly harder and not optimal. It would make more optimization sense for their tax rates to fluctuate based on the listed value so transactions always ended with no change being required. Thus requiring no change ever be made. If the entire race has intuitive mathematician, they would be able to calculate the rates in their head, and it would reduce metal waste in the forms of unneeded coinage.
Wouldn't that just be "figure total, then round"?
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08-12-2019, 01:48 PM   #873
WingedKagouti

Join Date: Oct 2007
Re: Another 2000 Things I Am No Longer Allowed To Do In An RPG

Quote:
 Originally Posted by RyanW Wouldn't that just be "figure total, then round"?
Now do that in your head for 20 items, especially if there are several "fill a bag of fresh potatoes, \$1/pound"-style items involved.

08-12-2019, 02:05 PM   #874
Mark Skarr
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(If you have to ask . . .)

Join Date: Feb 2005
Re: Another 2000 Things I Am No Longer Allowed To Do In An RPG

Quote:
 Originally Posted by RyanW Wouldn't that just be "figure total, then round"?
In a basic sort of way, yes. It's figure total, apply tax, then round. Which, for a race of intuitive mathematicians would be infinitely easier than keeping track of 16 different coins.

I mean the change sections of a cash drawer for a Point-of-Sales system would be a nightmare for those people.

Quote:
 Originally Posted by WingedKagouti Now do that in your head for 20 items, especially if there are several "fill a bag of fresh potatoes, \$1/pound"-style items involved.
For intuitive mathematicians that's like telling you to keep track of your debit card. Sure, some people have a horrible problem with that. But, the majority can pull it off.

And, most stores have scales so, they can fill up a bag with potatoes and know how much it weighs so they can adjust the running total in their heads.

 08-12-2019, 04:00 PM #875 Gold & Appel Inc On Notice   Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: One Mile Up Re: Another 2000 Things I Am No Longer Allowed To Do In An RPG Certain adjustments are required for operating as someone with Eidetic Memory in Skarrpornoworld, but it's mostly under the same umbrella. ;D
08-12-2019, 06:12 PM   #876

Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: MO, U.S.A.
Re: Another 2000 Things I Am No Longer Allowed To Do In An RPG

Quote:
 Originally Posted by RogerBW Not all optimisations are equal. Having that many different coins means that you have to recognise the values of that many different coins, which might not automatically come under Intuitive Mathematician even if the adding-up does; so that part will take longer even if counting them out is quicker.
Now I'm picturing those metal change counters some people use set up like a bandolier.
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08-12-2019, 10:00 PM   #877
RyanW

Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Southeast NC
Re: Another 2000 Things I Am No Longer Allowed To Do In An RPG

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Mark Skarr I mean the change sections of a cash drawer for a Point-of-Sales system would be a nightmare for those people.
1, 3, 11, 37 (or 38) is the optimized four coin system: 4.1 coins on average (compared with 4.7 for the US standard 1, 5, 10, 25 system).
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RyanW
The integral of comedy is tragedy times time plus one half time squared

08-13-2019, 05:35 AM   #878
RogerBW

Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: near London, UK
Re: Another 2000 Things I Am No Longer Allowed To Do In An RPG

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Mark Skarr It's figure total, apply tax, then round.
Of course, adding tax to your nominal total at the point of sale, rather than having it included in the price on the label, is a fairly unusual practice in itself. In the UK it only happens in shops which sell to both VAT-rated and non-VAT-rated customers, which are quite rare (some office supplies vendors, for example), and even they usually have dual labels on each item.

 08-13-2019, 08:10 AM #879 Anaraxes   Join Date: Sep 2007 Re: Another 2000 Things I Am No Longer Allowed To Do In An RPG Intuitive Mathematicians wouldn't see the attraction to wanting two-coin change in the first place. The only appeal there is adding just two numbers, once. But that's effortless for them. If that species were optimizing, they'd be optimizing something else. Fewest number of coins you had to carry, least weight or volume of coins, etc -- not minimizing arithmetic required. Might even be unlikely that they'd find the two-coin property appealing. As much fun as it might be for human recreational mathematicians, a species that intuits math probably has an entirely different aesthetic. That's assuming they don't do something really weird, like mint coinage based on quaternions so they can value things on a 4D surface, rather than being stuck trying to force comparisons of vectors of values into a single scalar point with a binary yes/no decision, like those primitive Earthlings do. Poor things; no wonder their "governments" are so screwed up.
08-13-2019, 01:54 PM   #880
ak_aramis

Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Alsea, OR
Re: Another 2000 Things I Am No Longer Allowed To Do In An RPG

Quote:
 Originally Posted by RogerBW Of course, adding tax to your nominal total at the point of sale, rather than having it included in the price on the label, is a fairly unusual practice in itself. In the UK it only happens in shops which sell to both VAT-rated and non-VAT-rated customers, which are quite rare (some office supplies vendors, for example), and even they usually have dual labels on each item.
Whereas, in the US, the only products where tax is routinely included in list are petrol, alcohol, and tobacco. Most services also do not include taxes.

Likewise, pay scales are before taxes; take home on the check are reduced for state and federal witholding, unemployment, and Social Security.

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