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Old 06-23-2016, 01:45 AM   #131
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Default Re: [ATE] Farming example

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Originally Posted by Tallor View Post
My combination of anxiousness and attention span has been limiting in trying to learn about ATE farming, but I'd like to ask -- if the ATE folk had biofuel-powered trucks, would they use them to move goats to other pastures, or is that sort of a waste of resources?
The short answer is probably not. In most cases it will be cheaper/easier to muster the goats to the next pasture. To get the goats onto a truck, loading facilities would be desired.

However large distances, lack of feed/water along the way, animal health issues, defence would all be reasonable reasons for using a vehical. In 3141 if ample fuel existed they might move the nannies by vehical after they give birth so that when they are lactating they are on premium pasture.
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Old 06-23-2016, 09:51 AM   #132
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Default Re: [ATE] Farming example

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The short answer is probably not. In most cases it will be cheaper/easier to muster the goats to the next pasture. To get the goats onto a truck, loading facilities would be desired.

However large distances, lack of feed/water along the way, animal health issues, defence would all be reasonable reasons for using a vehical. In 3141 if ample fuel existed they might move the nannies by vehical after they give birth so that when they are lactating they are on premium pasture.
I think that in most AtE scenarios, the lack of infrastructure and the general reduction in wealth would require a lot more human labor to do things we use machinery and information for, now. By current standards, life in AtE would feature an appalling amount of sheer drudgery, day after day after day, for most people.

The practical utility of this thread is to help the GM add tremendous verisimilitude to his or her setting. However, I'd never want to play in a campaign devoted to realistic modeling of post-apocalyptic survival. It would be just about the opposite of anything anyone would consider "adventurous."

So, I'd think any truck would be carefully preserved for emergencies, and not used if the same thing could be done with extra time and effort, by people. So, you'd see a lot more goatherds, and shepherds, and goose-girls, and cowboys. I'd bet at least 80 percent of any given population lives by stoop-labor, and that number would rise to nearly 100 percent, in places with few resources.
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Old 06-29-2016, 04:33 AM   #133
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Default Re: [ATE] Farming example

I have finally got a working broadband connection for the PC, it's great to use a proper keyboard again. Formatting has been caught up with and a few edits have been made here and there.

Regarding Evileeyore's bee question from a many posts ago.
I've been mulling over the no bees apocalypse and it seems to be more of a drop in efficiency when it comes to food production rather than an End. A large number of pollinator species will have to be effected to have the complete "No Bees" result.

- There are many different bee species, maybe a thousand pollinate plants used for food production. There are also numerous other pollinators that are generally more specific in the plant species they interact with.
- Tree nuts and Citrus are the most susceptible to bee loss
- In general terms the loss of bees will result in an increase in labour requirements and a drop in productivity.
- Many weeds are going to be hard hit by the loss of bees.
- In most cases there are other pollinators.
- Pasture legumes can be pollinated by Bumble bees or Honey bees and produce copious amounts of seed (average seed density per m2 of pasture is in excess of 100,000 seeds for white clover) and has a high seed endurance.
- Potatoes, maize, wheat, oats, millets, amaranth to name but a few, don't require pollinators for food production. So bulk food production will remain which seems counter to AtE sensibilities.

Antibiotic resistance is one area that might spark some reductions in meat production, the push for antibiotics to be saved for humans is currently gaining momentum.
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Old 06-29-2016, 11:21 AM   #134
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Default Re: [ATE] Farming example

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(SNIP)

Antibiotic resistance is one area that might spark some reductions in meat production, the push for antibiotics to be saved for humans is currently gaining momentum.
This might even prove to be a boon for general human health, actually, even leaving aside the decrease in the rate of bacterial resistance.

Children -- especially girls and young women -- need a fair amount of red meat, although not as much as we usually get in Western, industrialized societies. As an adult, we only need a little bit, now and then, to make sure we have enough enzymes and complex vitamins -- and we can usually get what we need with a carefully planned vegetarian diet, besides.

So, if we decrease the availability of red meat, and drive up the price a bit, we might actually wind up more healthy, overall, because we consume a lot less fat and cholesterol.
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Old 07-04-2016, 07:15 AM   #135
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Default Re: [ATE] Farming example

Brimstone
A destination as apposed to an origin.

Assumptions
- A similar End to “Main Street” may fit in the same world
- The local climate is somewhat friendlier than “Main Street's” but drier and hotter
- The sudden change of climate brought on by the End has reduced the available varieties of crops.

Notes
- Brimstone is crossroads town.
- Very little rain catchment, this has pros and cons
- Has a doctor
- May be politically unstable with the three main factions
- Possibilities exist for reunification gaming or a “Fistful of bullets” campaign
- No fiber crops
- One or more factions may be or contain mutants depending on the type of game.
- High temperatures severely limit the plants that can survive.
- The locals diet is very narrow and deficiencies are common.
- Aside from the doctors garden the heat and lack of pollinators has resulted in the available crops being reduced to not much more than cereals.
- the water supply requires a working pump.

Geography
Located in a shallow saddle with typical post apocalyptic plains on either side. Brimstone benefits from a location that does not receive much in the way of water or wind born toxins. A major road by AtE standards passes through the community.

Description
The fields around Brimstone alternate between golden wheat, browning beans and green pasture. Wind turbines, watch towers and solar panels are visible on the horizon. To the south the titanic power of the old world's weapons is starkly obvious as a mountain lies broken revealing a warren of tunnels and chambers.

Water
A deep (1200m) bore is the only reliable source of water for the community. This water has a high sulphur content which provides the town with it's name. The water is at near boiling point when it reaches the surface. The old cooling trenches now have an added benefit, the core of the town has a moat filled with water hot enough to strip skin off the unwary.

Factions
Growers; Control the Bore and produce the crops, reliant on the Ranchers for power and meat. They are also reliant on the Diggers for parts, some high end consumables and equipment higher than TL5 or 6. The Growers maintain horses for use as draught animals.

Ranchers; Serve as sentries and the first line of defence they control the power generation (mainly wind) and grazing animals, reliant on the Growers for cereals, the richer grazing land and water. They are also reliant on the Diggers for any technology higher than TL4 as well as ammunition and weapons.

Diggers; The diggers “mine” the ruined bunker complex and use what remains of it's infrastructure. They produce old technology from their delving and maintain higher tech facilities than the other two factions. They are reliant on the other factions for food water and power, though they do produce some mushrooms and a very few crops under artificial light. They maintain the equipment required to quarry limestone and produce the spare parts for the rest of the community.

Crops

Three field rotation is used at Brimstone with Cereals (Wheat and Maize) following on from Legumes (hand pollinated Beans) that follow on from two years as pasture. Due to the Sulfur in the water acidity is an ongoing problem requiring a large amount of lime. Blood and bone fertilizer is provided by the livestock the Ranchers manage and the Diggers have the ability to use the abundant sulphur to produce other TL7 and 8 fertilizers. In total about 1.5-2 tonnes of cereals and beans are produced per hectare providing the mainstay of the diet for the 5-600 residents of brimstone.

The Diggers produce mushrooms but are reliant on the growers for a growing medium and water. Yields will be maybe half that of underground mushroom systems elsewhere due to heat and the ever present sulphur.

The Ranchers have a range of animals that they raise almost entirely for meat, to produce dairy they would need animals with the appropriate genetic stock and reliable access to the Grower's higher quality (irrigated) pasture. They raise sheep, cattle, horses and goats at about 0.05 stock units per hectare (see post 54) on the land surrounding Brimstone. They also irrigate a small area of better pasture (2-3 Stock Units per hectare) and when they can arrange it they graze their animals on the high fertility pastures (9+ Stock Units per hectare) maintained by the growers.

Doctors garden
The doctor is a late arrival to the community of brimstone and came with a large number of plants suitable for supporting their occupation. The communities Doctor(s) maintain a well protected and high walled garden with several subdivided areas maintained within. These walls (and sometimes roofs) protect the plants from both the elements and people more interested in the gardens recreational qualities. As well as the plants mentioned previously (post 128) there is also wormwood, camomile, coffee, cloves (dental uses even today) cinnamon, oregano, onion, anise, noni, ginger. Unknown to the locals the micro-climate provided by the high walls ensures the plants are cool enough to survive. The net effect of this well developed doctors garden is a bonus to health rolls in most recovery situation (radiation excluded, see the Diggers) and probably the ability to offset any penalties to health rolls to recover. (I will leave out the exact numbers). This is a dense garden about half a hectare in size with a few trees. Pollination is carried out by hand using small brushes.

Produce
- Meat
- Leather
- High tech
- Energy rich, long lasting cereal. Several tonnes of surplus.
- Ether

Services
- Hot baths
- sterile doctor's treatment room

Stored food
- Poor quality beef, goat and mutton jerky, Sugar or honey would improve the quality greatly.
- Flour, corn flour, lye treated cornmeals
- Dried beans

Requires
Salt
Sugar

Skills

- Farming
- Animal handling
- Engineer, electrical, structural, mining
- Blacksmithing

Some editing and additions required, tried to work in a lack of bees ;)
I have left the exact game effects of the doctors garden out but if anyone wants to throw around some ideas feel free. On the same subject if anyone wants to expand on any of these locations by adding social detail or NPCs etc feel free, they might require a new thread for clarity though???
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Old 07-05-2016, 10:38 PM   #136
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Default Re: [ATE] Farming example

Would anyone like a coming out of the bunker write-up? Or any other specific scenarios for that matter?
Random bursts of inspiration aside I might start winding this thread down.
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Old 07-05-2016, 11:17 PM   #137
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Default Re: [ATE] Farming example

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Would anyone like a coming out of the bunker write-up? Or any other specific scenarios for that matter?
Random bursts of inspiration aside I might start winding this thread down.
Oh that sound good, I'd be very interested in that bunker scenario.
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Old 07-07-2016, 01:53 AM   #138
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Default Re: [ATE] Farming example

Leaving the bunker
Assumptions
- larger bunker complex, government or organization funded.
- Anything smaller would have reduced endurance 10 years seems about the best TL8 can do for maintaining a humans dietary requirement. (Lots of other issues to)
-- TL 9 can manage 20 year food storage
-- TL 10 can manage 40 year food storage
- Small TL 8 bunkers would start opening 1,3,5 or up to 10 years after the End. This is pre AtE.
- Some gardening would be required to maintain viable seed stocks
- Livestock with the possible exception of fish would probably not survive in shelters without special planning.
- Basic tools would be present but little machinery
- A larger shelter would likely have a water source and power generation
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Old 07-07-2016, 10:13 AM   #139
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Default Re: [ATE] Farming example

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Originally Posted by (E) View Post
Leaving the bunker
Assumptions
- larger bunker complex, government or organization funded.
- Anything smaller would have reduced endurance 10 years seems about the best TL8 can do for maintaining a humans dietary requirement. (Lots of other issues to)
-- TL 9 can manage 20 year food storage
-- TL 10 can manage 40 year food storage
- Small TL 8 bunkers would start opening 1,3,5 or up to 10 years after the End. This is pre AtE.
- Some gardening would be required to maintain viable seed stocks
- Livestock with the possible exception of fish would probably not survive in shelters without special planning.
- Basic tools would be present but little machinery
- A larger shelter would likely have a water source and power generation
Something like this could be really useful for campaigns that begin (or run into) Building 710 at the Denver Federal Center.

http://barthworks.com/lakewoodcohist...10/bldg710.htm

Now, that's meant to be more of a short-term facility -- 30 days of survival, at the most, but you could expand it pretty easily, for campaign purposes. Just add a couple more underground levels, by fiat.

That said, it's a pretty cool site, as-is. There's even a U.S. Army Reserve vehicle pool and storage site, on the north end of the Federal Center, less than a mile away.

You can see that, pretty easily, too:

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.7249...7i13312!8i6656
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Old 07-07-2016, 12:17 PM   #140
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Default Re: [ATE] Farming example

Quote:
Originally Posted by (E) View Post
Leaving the bunker
Assumptions
- larger bunker complex, government or organization funded.
- Anything smaller would have reduced endurance 10 years seems about the best TL8 can do for maintaining a humans dietary requirement. (Lots of other issues to)
-- TL 9 can manage 20 year food storage
-- TL 10 can manage 40 year food storage
- Small TL 8 bunkers would start opening 1,3,5 or up to 10 years after the End. This is pre AtE.
- Some gardening would be required to maintain viable seed stocks
- Livestock with the possible exception of fish would probably not survive in shelters without special planning.
- Basic tools would be present but little machinery
- A larger shelter would likely have a water source and power generation
(E) assuming my AtE has justification for a large nuclear exchange that prioritized long lasting fallout over immediate destructive power, how long would people reasonably be living out of their fallout shelters?

Also could you attach some numbers to the shelter sizes? Is a small bunker just one that doesn't necessarily need government/corporate funding or is it intended more as a family and close friend sized shelter?
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