Space/Steampunk Idea

scc · 02-27-2016, 03:33 AM

The Idea
In a universe where mankind evolved with other habitable worlds visible in the sky, in most places the decision was made to preserve oil stockpiles for space-flight, this means that any technology that depends heavily on oil and petroleum products was not, in most places, fully developed.

The Tech
The Standard TL(5+1) of Steampunk, but with a dash of crystal spires and togas is the sort of gear characters have, basically everything TL6 can be found, as long as it doesn’t heavily depend upon oil. So this means radio exists, but not a lot of commercial flight. Interestingly the automobile is around in a couple of forms. There’s the battery powered runabout for cities, but never caused the personal mobility revolution that it’s counterpart did, it’s very short ranged and public transport (Mainly electric these days) is good enough to get you around. In the country there are long-hualer, which use alcohol or other bio-fuel powerplants, but only to get you to the nearest railhead. Wherever you however motorbikes and -trikes tend to be more popular due to powerplant limitations. Basically it’s something like the 1950’s if both the Conservative Hard SF and Retrotech where applied to circa 1900 with TL(5+1), there is however one exceptions:

Spaceflight
This is at TL7 or equivalent, but only for absolutely vital technologies, with absolutely NO nuclear based developments. Standard chemical rocket engines with in axuliarly air-breathing mode are used to get off the ground, and mag-sails. The former fits in well with steampunk for it’s love of complicated gadgets, even if it is probably TL9.

Geography
The bulk of the setting is a gas giant or rather it’s moon’s, at least two of which are habitable. These moons are much smaller then Earth and they take the place of Africa. There may be other habitable planets in orbit around the star, and there are other stars in the system, but they are not of interest yet.

Now the rest of this touches on country names and because I only have broadstrokes as of yet, and those no names, and to make reading easier I’ll be using real world names to refer to countries counterparts in my fictional ‘verse.

Countries are a lot smaller then they are on Earth, very large ones like the USA, Russia and China are about the size of France in the real world, France is about the size of Belgium and Belgium about the size of Luxembourg, countries smaller then that are city states, if they exist and city states don’t exist.

Politics
A Great Power is generally characterised by them having a large of world colony plus infastrucure to get there, and the list is rather short, just the British Empire, Germany and Japan. Honorable mentions go to: France who lost their largest off-world colony to a German colony in a recent war in a replay of the Franco-Prussian war; The US whose declared independence and with no way to transport troops it stuck (Civil war); And Russia who technically meet the requirements but because of the poverty of their population just can’t meet the sort umph the others have.

A Major Power still has an off-world colony, but depends upon others to get to have the infrastructure to maintain it, either by being part of some sort of union or a Great Power. Notable member are Spain and Portugal and the British Territories of Canada and India.

Minor Power’s generally lack any off-world presence, the most notable ones are China, currently dominated by Japan, and the CSA, the US’ former colony.

Fred Brackin · 02-27-2016, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scc

The Idea
In a universe where mankind evolved with other habitable worlds visible in the sky, in most places the decision was made to preserve oil stockpiles for space-flight, this means that any technology that depends heavily on oil and petroleum products was not, in most places, fully developed.

This would be historically peculiar. The only actual uses during Earth's TL5 period for petroleum were for illumination. Early in TL6 you start to get heavy petroleum fractions used for naval steam engines and then diesels.

Just before 1900 (a third of the way through TL6) you get gasoline-powered internal combustion engines.

The first basically effective rockets were the V-2s and they ran on ethyl alcohol distilled from potatoes (your bio-fuel). The Bell X-1 rocket plane ran on alcohol too. The first real jets in the 40s ran on kerosene but it wasn't until the 60s that you saw kerosene used in rockets.

So, recognizing petroleum as essential to space flight at the mid-point of the Industrial revolution looks precognitive at best. I also wonder how small petroleum supplies must be that they have to be so restricted. The percentage of Earth's supply used for space flight is too small to measure as a percentage. If there really wasn't enough petroleum for space flight you could synthesize enough.

I'm also not seeing the "steampunk" or (TL5+1) elements. The whole thing looks pretty solidly tL9 from what you've mentioned so far.

scc · 02-27-2016, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

This would be historically peculiar. The only actual uses during Earth's TL5 period for petroleum were for illumination. Early in TL6 you start to get heavy petroleum fractions used for naval steam engines and then diesels.

Just before 1900 (a third of the way through TL6) you get gasoline-powered internal combustion engines.

The first basically effective rockets were the V-2s and they ran on ethyl alcohol distilled from potatoes (your bio-fuel). The Bell X-1 rocket plane ran on alcohol too. The first real jets in the 40s ran on kerosene but it wasn't until the 60s that you saw kerosene used in rockets.

So, recognizing petroleum as essential to space flight at the mid-point of the Industrial revolution looks precognitive at best. I also wonder how small petroleum supplies must be that they have to be so restricted. The percentage of Earth's supply used for space flight is too small to measure as a percentage. If there really wasn't enough petroleum for space flight you could synthesize enough.

I'm also not seeing the "steampunk" or (TL5+1) elements. The whole thing looks pretty solidly tL9 from what you've mentioned so far.

It wouldn't take much to realize the potential of petroleum for spaceflight, especially if it's the area where a society was most advanced.

As for the TL9 appearing stuff, I think you're referring to the battery powered cars? Well apparently there was at least one model on the market at the time, however when AC won the war of the currents and no inverters it was kinda hard to charge.

Fred Brackin · 02-27-2016, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scc

It wouldn't take much to realize the potential of petroleum for spaceflight, especially if it's the area where a society was most advanced.

As for the TL9 appearing stuff, I think you're referring to the battery powered cars? Well apparently there was at least one model on the market at the time, however when AC won the war of the currents and no inverters it was kinda hard to charge.

You need a concept of rocket engines and distilling and cracking petroleum to get lighter fractions before you can realize the (relatively modest) potential of petroleum for spaceflight. As I said, petroleum wasn't even the firs tthing people used for rocket fuel. I totally skipped over the use of hydrogen burning rocket engines too.

The electric golf carts are only TL7 at best. I was referring to those hybrid airbreathing ram-rockets and the magsails as TL9. Probably also the life support that keeps everyone alive on those space voyages too. All well in advance of what our Earth has at late TL8.

scc · 02-27-2016, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

You need a concept of rocket engines and distilling and cracking petroleum to get lighter fractions before you can realize the (relatively modest) potential of petroleum for spaceflight. As I said, petroleum wasn't even the firs tthing people used for rocket fuel. I totally skipped over the use of hydrogen burning rocket engines too.

The potential as a fuel source would be realized but, and these people probably had the theory behind rockets figured out much earlier then we did, fireworks are basically sold fuel rockets and their, what TL3? TL4?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

The electric golf carts are only TL7 at best. I was referring to those hybrid airbreathing ram-rockets and the magsails as TL9. Probably also the life support that keeps everyone alive on those space voyages too. All well in advance of what our Earth has at late TL8.

I fully acknowledged that the rocket would be TL9, but it's complex internals also fit in with a steampunk setting. As for the Mag Sails, I forgot about their TL, but given that the setting is in orbit around a gas giant, they may be more achievable then normal

02-27-2016, 03:33 AM	#1
scc Join Date: Mar 2013	Space/Steampunk Idea The Idea In a universe where mankind evolved with other habitable worlds visible in the sky, in most places the decision was made to preserve oil stockpiles for space-flight, this means that any technology that depends heavily on oil and petroleum products was not, in most places, fully developed. The Tech The Standard TL(5+1) of Steampunk, but with a dash of crystal spires and togas is the sort of gear characters have, basically everything TL6 can be found, as long as it doesn’t heavily depend upon oil. So this means radio exists, but not a lot of commercial flight. Interestingly the automobile is around in a couple of forms. There’s the battery powered runabout for cities, but never caused the personal mobility revolution that it’s counterpart did, it’s very short ranged and public transport (Mainly electric these days) is good enough to get you around. In the country there are long-hualer, which use alcohol or other bio-fuel powerplants, but only to get you to the nearest railhead. Wherever you however motorbikes and -trikes tend to be more popular due to powerplant limitations. Basically it’s something like the 1950’s if both the Conservative Hard SF and Retrotech where applied to circa 1900 with TL(5+1), there is however one exceptions: Spaceflight This is at TL7 or equivalent, but only for absolutely vital technologies, with absolutely NO nuclear based developments. Standard chemical rocket engines with in axuliarly air-breathing mode are used to get off the ground, and mag-sails. The former fits in well with steampunk for it’s love of complicated gadgets, even if it is probably TL9. Geography The bulk of the setting is a gas giant or rather it’s moon’s, at least two of which are habitable. These moons are much smaller then Earth and they take the place of Africa. There may be other habitable planets in orbit around the star, and there are other stars in the system, but they are not of interest yet. Now the rest of this touches on country names and because I only have broadstrokes as of yet, and those no names, and to make reading easier I’ll be using real world names to refer to countries counterparts in my fictional ‘verse. Countries are a lot smaller then they are on Earth, very large ones like the USA, Russia and China are about the size of France in the real world, France is about the size of Belgium and Belgium about the size of Luxembourg, countries smaller then that are city states, if they exist and city states don’t exist. Politics A Great Power is generally characterised by them having a large of world colony plus infastrucure to get there, and the list is rather short, just the British Empire, Germany and Japan. Honorable mentions go to: France who lost their largest off-world colony to a German colony in a recent war in a replay of the Franco-Prussian war; The US whose declared independence and with no way to transport troops it stuck (Civil war); And Russia who technically meet the requirements but because of the poverty of their population just can’t meet the sort umph the others have. A Major Power still has an off-world colony, but depends upon others to get to have the infrastructure to maintain it, either by being part of some sort of union or a Great Power. Notable member are Spain and Portugal and the British Territories of Canada and India. Minor Power’s generally lack any off-world presence, the most notable ones are China, currently dominated by Japan, and the CSA, the US’ former colony.