Translating Precedence

[jason taylor]

Do we have a system for translating the status systems of cultures different from the Imperium.

Suppose for instance an Azhanti chief attended a party or a minor Aslan Ko, or a near relation of his? What would he compare with an Imperial Noble? Of course if such problems are likely to occur often they might just be given a Rank Noble title and be done with it. But assuming this is the first time they had attended an Imperial function, how would the Chamberlain list them?

[Captain Midnight]

Why would there be a need to translate? If nobody has ever heard of the outlander's actual title, then it would seem reasonable to just give it untranslated, so as not to offer offense. If nobody's ever heard of the alien's group, it can be assumed to be of little consequence until they become more regularly encountered, and an assessment can be performed of their relative power and importance.

That's of course a very Imperial-centric view... but you did put the question in the context of an Imperial function.

"Buhmfahrter... not sure what that title means, and if we'll never see him again, it won't matter if we don't get it translated. Hand me another drink, will you?"

[Agemegos]

I think that the Traveller Method is to say that it depends on the terms of the agreement by which the joined the Imperium.

[malloyd]

Originally Posted by jason taylor

Suppose for instance an Azhanti chief attended a party or a minor Aslan Ko, or a near relation of his? What would he compare with an Imperial Noble? Of course if such problems are likely to occur often they might just be given a Rank Noble title and be done with it. But assuming this is the first time they had attended an Imperial function, how would the Chamberlain list them?

If you mean *order* of precedence, I've always assumed the lowest ranking Imperial noble outranks any local noble at all. Though many planetary kings will also hold the higher title of (Imperial) Baron. Foreigners are a more tricky issue.

[Hans Rancke-Madsen]

Originally Posted by jason taylor

Do we have a system for translating the status systems of cultures different from the Imperium.

Suppose for instance an Azhanti chief attended a party or a minor Aslan Ko, or a near relation of his? What would he compare with an Imperial Noble?

You roll 2D for his social status. If you roll a 12, he's the equal of an Imperial baron. If you roll a 2, he's the equal of an Imperial social outcast.

Note that I'm not saying this makes sense, I'm just saying that's the rules (CT rules -- I don't think there are any GT rules for it). Check out the Barbarian career in Supplement 4 and the sample barbarians. You have a Chief (rank 5 or 6 barbarian) with an SL of 5 and a Barbarian (rank 1 barbarian) with an SL of 12.

Of course if such problems are likely to occur often they might just be given a Rank Noble title and be done with it. But assuming this is the first time they had attended an Imperial function, how would the Chamberlain list them?

IMTU the Imperium has a agency that assesses the social clout of the top echelons of member worlds and hands out appropriately-ranked Imperial knighthoods. For a visitor from outside the Imperium, the master of ceremonies would make an assessement based on the visitor's position in his home society, modified by the TL of that society. I.e. a king of a country of a given population on a low-tech world would rank lower than a king of a similar-sized country on a mid-tech world who would rank lower than one on a high-tech world, and so on.


Hans

[jason taylor]

"Why would there be a need to translate? If nobody has ever heard of the outlander's actual title, then it would seem reasonable to just give it untranslated, so as not to offer offense. If nobody's ever heard of the alien's group, it can be assumed to be of little consequence until they become more regularly encountered, and an assessment can be performed of their relative power and importance."

In the first placeThe assumption is not that the title wasn't heard of before(the visitor is coming to a formal function, he is not a barbarian from a planet discovered by the IISS), but that the Chamberlain has no experience with someone from his culture. In the second place some things like seating arrangements, depend on precedence.

"That's of course a very Imperial-centric view... but you did put the question in the context of an Imperial function."

Quite so. I was intrigued by the comparison between the Imperium's hierarchial nobility and one like the Aslan where nobility has no rank structure as such so the only status comes from the size of a noble's patrimony.

[Agemegos]

Official orders of precedence tend to be very domestic, though one is reminded of squabbles between the French and Spanish over whose diplomats would take precedence over whose. But there was a British system in the Indian Empire in which different native princes were accorded various number of guns in salute and appointed as honorary general officers in the Indian Army, besides being appointed to nicely-graded dignities in the Order of the Star of India and the Order of the Indian Empire. Those appointments did give their recipients places in the Order of Precedence in England & Wales, but for the appointments per se, not as any sort of direct equivalency between Indian maharajas and British knights.