EU without The UK

[Gadget]

Any opinions on how the EU in transhuman space would look like without the UK

[Phil Masters]

Honestly, the material seemed to have been written assuming the UK's long-running semi-detached attitude anyway. For example, we seemed to have, in effect, "European space operations" and "British space operations". Note also that Scottish independence is already written into the setting. Actually, on current trends, one might get an EU without the UK but with Scotland.

But the general optimistic assumptions of the setting included sustained growth for all parts of the EU, which would leave it in a position to do most of the canonical stuff anyhow, and European internal politics aren't heavily addressed, so the necessary changes to the canon are small. You need a separate UK representation on Mars, I guess.

And like it or not, sheer geography means that there's going to be a lot of collaboration between the UK and the EU on assorted projects, including big tech stuff - for example, Airbus is unlikely to fold its British arm anytime soon, I think and hope, even if increased paperwork and dumb politically-motivated labour movement rules turn into the inevitable royal pain in the fundament - so there's probably still a significant UK investment and involvement in the space elevator, because what's the point of projecting power as far as the asteroid belt if you refuse to get involved with cheap access to orbit?

(Technically, you probably have to specify whether the UK gets into the European Economic Area or not, and on what terms. Which is one of the interesting times-questions of the next couple of years that David Cameron presumably felt that he couldn't face negotiating, and I can only blame him because I think that the whole mess is his fault in the first place. But then again, TS has no EEA, and Norway and Iceland within the EU...)

So you either have to assume "not much change really" or "total rewrite of the future history". Which latter becomes more necessary every year, obviously, but stops the setting being TS as we know it.

My old "Europe on Mars" campaign framework would need a rewrite, though.

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by Phil Masters

So you either have to assume "not much change really" or "total rewrite of the future history". Which latter becomes more necessary every year, obviously, but stops the setting being TS as we know it.

Every decade has its own future. So now with THS, as with Star Trek or Lensman or Heinlein's Future History, any campaign becomes an exercise in alternate history.

[Randyman]

Originally Posted by whswhs

Every decade has its own future. So now with THS, as with Star Trek or Lensman or Heinlein's Future History, any campaign becomes an exercise in alternate history.

Arguably, that's already been true. This event simply makes it glaringly obvious.

[Drifter]

You could have the Brexit vote, followed by a Scottish withdraw from the UK, followed by a decade of lousy English economy, followed by an English return to the EU. A blip in the big picture.

Unlikely in reality. We'll see more countries leave the EU. But with such a narrow vote its possible England will come to its senses - especially after the older generation that voted heavily for Exit dies out. A decade or two.

- edit; I should say in the THS setting, I'm just floating an idea to salvage as much of the THS backstory as possible.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by Randyman

Arguably, that's already been true. This event simply makes it glaringly obvious.

The almost total lack of Chinese aerospace development has already put an even bigger crimp in the setting's political assumptions. Right now it would be difficult to forecast China as anything but a regional bully.

Possibly one facing a soviet-style collapse when its' largely parasitic military becomes too expensive to support any more.

So if you have no China on Mars changes in European presence are potentially small.

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by Drifter

Unlikely in reality. We'll see more countries leave the EU. But with such a narrow vote its possible England will come to its senses - especially after the older generation that voted heavily for Exit dies out. A decade or two.

Or perhaps the rest of Europe will come to its senses instead.

[Astromancer]

Given that Iceland's miseries have shown that being European and not being in the EU only works for the Swiss, I think the Brits will learn from their mistakes. I think both of the largest and most powerful Anglophone nations will be going through some crazy times which will end in big governmental reforms. What forms will these reforms take? How would I know?

The fact that Putin wants to expand Russia in order to keep his people ignoring his total fouling up of the economy and government, will force some kind of unity. Hopefully something better than the whole of Europe being under jackboot rule.

[Astromancer]

Originally Posted by Owen Smith

Given the dismay of the young at this result (shame only 40% of under 25s actually voted) that's an entirely plausible future in the real world never mind THS.

There seems to be a thin chance that actually leaving the EU, a hot potato that Cameron has tossed to his rivals, will seem to much like suicide for anyone to go through with. Labor seems ready to dump it's leader so that if they get the job tossed to them, they'll not go through with it either.

Maybe they can dither the time away and suggest a new vote is needed. More outrageous things have happened. And some potatoes aren't just hot, they're radioactive.

[Phil Masters]

...Which brings us back round to the TS options, because judging by Fifth Wave, EFTA has been pretty much subsumed by the EU in 2100. Which, long term, might be a politically easier sell than specific applications for (re)admission by individual nations. "You lot have been working with us lot for the last twenty-five years, we've synchronised what, 85% of our regulations - what say we drop the silly pretence and the two lots of admin staff and just make it formal?"