Wizard's Charm vs Friendship Potion - Page 3

StaticHamster · 06-12-2009, 08:49 AM

Lets play out the sequence of events....

There is a monster the wizard can't beat
He charms it
Someone wanders in another Monster that the Wizard can or can't beat but....
Plays "Monsters are Busy" with it

I would say that the Wizard gets no Treasure. It's a general rule that if you don't kill ALL the monsters in a combat that you don't get the treasure for any of them....very Munchkinly move.

In a similar move the card "Out to Lunch" can be played so that the Wizard only gets two treasures....but only in the case of another monster being Wandered in....

Andrew Hackard · 06-12-2009, 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StaticHamster

I would say that the Wizard gets no Treasure. It's a general rule that if you don't kill ALL the monsters in a combat that you don't get the treasure for any of them....very Munchkinly move.

To be precise, it's "defeat," not "kill," because you can certainly charm one monster and Magic Lamp another and get the treasure for both, assuming there are no other monsters.

In this case, having just read the card, I would rule that Monsters Are Busy applies only to the monsters in play at the time, and that the player would get the treasure for the previously charmed monster but not the one added to the combat.

StaticHamster · 06-12-2009, 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew Hackard

In this case, having just read the card, I would rule that Monsters Are Busy applies only to the monsters in play at the time, and that the player would get the treasure for the previously charmed monster but not the one added to the combat.

That may create some messy situations...

In a combat with multiple monsters, lets say 3, someone makes a deal that if the he gets help from the Wizard the Wizard can charm one of them and they can beat it together; let's say for half the treasure.

The Wizard agrees, Charms the highest level monster and then some player plays Monsters are Busy.

Do they split the treasure for the highest level monster?

Andrew Hackard · 06-12-2009, 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StaticHamster

That may create some messy situations...

In a combat with multiple monsters, lets say 3, someone makes a deal that if the he gets help from the Wizard the Wizard can charm one of them and they can beat it together; let's say for half the treasure.

The Wizard agrees, Charms the highest level monster and then some player plays "Monster's a Busy".

Do they split the treasure for the highest level monster?

That's not the same situation. I am specifically addressing the case where the wizard charms the only monster in the fight and THEN another monster gets wandered in and Monsters Are Busy gets played.

I'm also perfectly willing to be overruled by Erik or Steve on this one.

StaticHamster · 06-12-2009, 09:21 AM

It is a different situation. But in both not all the monster were defeated when Monsters are Busy was played so they should be handled in the same way.

RevBob · 06-12-2009, 09:47 PM

I think the distinction is a key difference, though. In one circumstance, the Wizard had defeated all the existing monsters and "won the combat" at one point; in the other, that's not the case and he only ever got part of the way there.

Whether this difference is worthy of making the outcomes different is yet another question, though. There are decent arguments both ways.

Personally, I would say that a Charmed monster should still grant treasure in both cases, but Busy monsters never do. It's partly a balance issue; the player did sacrifice his hand, as opposed to just playing a card. It's also a timing issue; I can see the charmed monster toddling out of the room, handing the player his stuff, and wandering into oblivion before his spooked comrades slam the door behind him. Finally, it's a "this is a game, there are rules that sometimes defy story-type logic" issue, where Charm says you get treasure for Monster X, Monsters Are Busy says you get nothing for Monsters Y and Z, and Monsters Are Busy doesn't affect Monster X since it's no longer in play. This is different from Running Away, which explicitly says you get nothing from anything because you ran before you could take possession.

That's just my assessment, though.

Cheese8242 · 06-12-2009, 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RevBob

I think the distinction is a key difference, though. In one circumstance, the Wizard had defeated all the existing monsters and "won the combat" at one point; in the other, that's not the case and he only ever got part of the way there.

Whether this difference is worthy of making the outcomes different is yet another question, though. There are decent arguments both ways.

Personally, I would say that a Charmed monster should still grant treasure in both cases, but Busy monsters never do. It's partly a balance issue; the player did sacrifice his hand, as opposed to just playing a card. It's also a timing issue; I can see the charmed monster toddling out of the room, handing the player his stuff, and wandering into oblivion before his spooked comrades slam the door behind him. Finally, it's a "this is a game, there are rules that sometimes defy story-type logic" issue, where Charm says you get treasure for Monster X, Monsters Are Busy says you get nothing for Monsters Y and Z, and Monsters Are Busy doesn't affect Monster X since it's no longer in play. This is different from Running Away, which explicitly says you get nothing from anything because you ran before you could take possession.

That's just my assessment, though.

I agree with this assessment.

Lolly · 07-27-2009, 01:48 AM

What's about Practice Match (Munchkin Fu)? If it's played after a monster is charmed, does the Wizard still get the treasures?

Andrew Hackard · 07-27-2009, 02:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lolly

What's about Practice Match (Munchkin Fu)? If it's played after a monster is charmed, does the Wizard still get the treasures?

Practice Match is merely the Munchkin Fu version of Monsters Are Busy. All the previous comments about Monsters Are Busy also apply to Practice Match (and any other card with the same effects).

mawile · 04-03-2011, 02:18 AM

I would like to sum up the thread and ask a question.
1) if you defeated a monster (with Mage's Charming, Magic Lamp, Pollymorph Potion and so on), no one can stop the combat (by playing Friendship Potion, Monsters Are Busy, Out To Lunch, Practice Combat and so on).
2) if you defeated a monster, but another monster is wandered, the combat can be stopped, but that card does not affect the first monster, so you take his treasures along with some treasures, that a stopping card may give.
3) if you faced multiple monsters and defeated one of them, the combat can be stopped and you don't get extra treasures from the first defeated monster.

The third part was not in this thread, so the question is, if I'm correct about all this.

06-12-2009, 08:49 AM	#21
StaticHamster Join Date: Feb 2008	Re: Wizard's Charm vs Friendship Potion Lets play out the sequence of events.... There is a monster the wizard can't beat He charms it Someone wanders in another Monster that the Wizard can or can't beat but.... Plays "Monsters are Busy" with it I would say that the Wizard gets no Treasure. It's a general rule that if you don't kill ALL the monsters in a combat that you don't get the treasure for any of them....very Munchkinly move. In a similar move the card "Out to Lunch" can be played so that the Wizard only gets two treasures....but only in the case of another monster being Wandered in.... __________________ I am nothing but a figment of my own imagination Last edited by StaticHamster; 06-12-2009 at 08:59 AM.

06-12-2009, 09:21 AM	#25
StaticHamster Join Date: Feb 2008	Re: Wizard's Charm vs Friendship Potion It is a different situation. But in both not all the monster were defeated when Monsters are Busy was played so they should be handled in the same way. __________________ I am nothing but a figment of my own imagination

06-12-2009, 09:47 PM	#26
RevBob Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Here on the perimeter, there are no stars	Re: Wizard's Charm vs Friendship Potion I think the distinction is a key difference, though. In one circumstance, the Wizard had defeated all the existing monsters and "won the combat" at one point; in the other, that's not the case and he only ever got part of the way there. Whether this difference is worthy of making the outcomes different is yet another question, though. There are decent arguments both ways. Personally, I would say that a Charmed monster should still grant treasure in both cases, but Busy monsters never do. It's partly a balance issue; the player did sacrifice his hand, as opposed to just playing a card. It's also a timing issue; I can see the charmed monster toddling out of the room, handing the player his stuff, and wandering into oblivion before his spooked comrades slam the door behind him. Finally, it's a "this is a game, there are rules that sometimes defy story-type logic" issue, where Charm says you get treasure for Monster X, Monsters Are Busy says you get nothing for Monsters Y and Z, and Monsters Are Busy doesn't affect Monster X since it's no longer in play. This is different from Running Away, which explicitly says you get nothing from anything because you ran before you could take possession. That's just my assessment, though. __________________ Find me at @RevBobTnJ * Goodreads Looking for a St. Aosbczkcs medal.

07-27-2009, 01:48 AM	#28
Lolly Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Saint-Petersburg, Russia	Re: Wizard's Charm vs Friendship Potion What's about Practice Match (Munchkin Fu)? If it's played after a monster is charmed, does the Wizard still get the treasures?

04-03-2011, 02:18 AM	#30
mawile Join Date: Aug 2008	Re: Wizard's Charm vs Friendship Potion I would like to sum up the thread and ask a question. 1) if you defeated a monster (with Mage's Charming, Magic Lamp, Pollymorph Potion and so on), no one can stop the combat (by playing Friendship Potion, Monsters Are Busy, Out To Lunch, Practice Combat and so on). 2) if you defeated a monster, but another monster is wandered, the combat can be stopped, but that card does not affect the first monster, so you take his treasures along with some treasures, that a stopping card may give. 3) if you faced multiple monsters and defeated one of them, the combat can be stopped and you don't get extra treasures from the first defeated monster. The third part was not in this thread, so the question is, if I'm correct about all this.