[Basic] Advantage of the Week (#36): Digital Mind

[Bruno]

Originally Posted by Otaku

That doesn't preclude discussing how, had there only been enough time, space, or whatever available, it would have been better for most if it had been written up a bit differently. Which is what I've been fighting, and where I wonder if the disconnect begins.

I think this is where an enormous gulf begins. You come across as very angry about the advantage-as-written, wanting some sort of justification for its very existence. This appears a pretty strong emotional investment for someone who just wants to talk about house rules. I'm quite sure nobody in this thread is trying to squelch discussion of house rules.

[Refplace]

Originally Posted by Otaku

Understandably, the people who worked on and approved this trait have not yet weighed in (and perhaps cannot). I realize that Digital Mind could have been "Either we go with this version we perfected for this one setting, or we have to leave it out entirely." That doesn't preclude discussing how, had there only been enough time, space, or whatever available, it would have been better for most if it had been written up a bit differently. Which is what I've been fighting, and where I wonder if the disconnect begins.

Originally Posted by Otaku

I'm not trying to tear the people who worked on Basic a new one. I am trying to honestly consider if Digital Mind could have been better handled in Basic, either being a little more general for digital minds or even a bit more general for non-standard minds as a whole, as well as get to what someone might make use of now, regardless of what Basic has for it.

Hopefully, this clears some things up.

I think the disconnect comes from the second quoted paragraph.
GURPS Third Edition suffered from very specialized traits being created for specific settings or needs. GURPS Fourth Edition went for a broader approach and broke things down into ways traits could be more easily customized.
However some traits did not get fully converted and were mostly copied from earlier editions.

Questions of why this was or was not done or opinions on style will tend to be contentious. Also typically not very useful, even here where flame wars are not allowed and overall more mutual respect and courtesy are seen than some other places.
I think had this stated with phrasing more like "Ok, So thats Digital Mind. However what if we were building something like this right now, what would it look like?" there would have been less talk on why and how it works and more on what changes we could make for our own games.

[sir_pudding]

Well 3e didn't, IIRC, have this trait but needed it. So in this case it is one of those traits that 3e demonstrated a need for and therefore was included in the 4e Basic Set.

[KarlKost]

Hey, that just crossed over my mind, but could it be that the Spirit meta trait could have a special form of Digital Mind? (You can't be subject to classic telepathy, if "shutdown" your "memory" can be recovered - possibly you could reform yourself if someone can craft a new body of "ephemera" were your disembodied mind is adrift, or if you possess unkillable and "ephemeral regeneration", and you're imune to influence rolls).

Perhaps... Look at the idea... Perhaps we could call this trait "Alternate Mindset"

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

Well 3e didn't, IIRC, have this trait but needed it. So in this case it is one of those traits that 3e demonstrated a need for and therefore was included in the 4e Basic Set.

It was a Feature in 3e THS. Not in the Compendium, though, IIRC.

[Refplace]

Originally Posted by KarlKost

Hey, that just crossed over my mind, but could it be that the Spirit meta trait could have a special form of Digital Mind? (You can't be subject to classic telepathy, if "shutdown" your "memory" can be recovered - possibly you could reform yourself if someone can craft a new body of "ephemera" were your disembodied mind is adrift, or if you possess unkillable and "ephemeral regeneration", and you're imune to influence rolls).

Perhaps... Look at the idea... Perhaps we could call this trait "Alternate Mindset"

I personally would not mind a Power Ups The Mind book, though I have several things I have already done I would love to see in there.
As for a Spirit Meta Trait I wouldn't really go that way but a broader Alt Mind advantage that had some modifiers but mostly was a UB.

[Flyndaran]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

It was a Feature in 3e THS. Not in the Compendium, though, IIRC.

So much in 3rd ed. involved features and hidden bundles of (dis)advantages.
We still have a few, but those are mostly to keep things from getting to unwieldy.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

It was a Feature in 3e THS. Not in the Compendium, though, IIRC.

Yes, that is my point. If being software is an advantage at all, this is why Digital Mind exists. Obviously there are people who think it isn't an advantage at all, given this thread.

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

Yes, that is my point. If being software is an advantage at all, this is why Digital Mind exists. Obviously there are people who think it isn't an advantage at all, given this thread.

The issue is that much of the 'being software' things are represented by other stuff, and it's not clear what package is guaranteed in exchange for [5], other than swapping telepathy susceptibility for hacking susceptibility. The trait description outright mentions someone with biobrain/biocomputer having Digital Mind, which seems to be the most 'rudimentary' form of DM, in the sense of having the smallest set of goodies (no Possession, no Compartmentalized Mind etc.). That still offers some benefits . . . and drawbacks.

But aside from the Indogenes in Defiance, I'm not sure I can find more examples of the latter form of Digital Mind.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

Yes, that is my point. If being software is an advantage at all, this is why Digital Mind exists. Obviously there are people who think it isn't an advantage at all, given this thread.

It's more a problem that the Digital Mind advantage, as written, seems mostly redundant with Extra Lives/Unkillable and Possession (Digital); if it includes anything like either of those effects it's underpriced, and if it doesn't it's not clear what's left.