New Reality Seeds

[fchase8]

Originally Posted by Astromancer

Try this idea, Robert Fulton tried to get Napoleon to invest in steamboats. Napoleon didn't see how steampowered boats were possible. On this world (Bonapart-9, perhaps) Napoleon got it. Fulton's steam barges took the Grand Army across the channel against the winds and caught England by surprise. Another Army landed in Ireland and set up the Hiberian Republic.

The invasion happened in 1807 the local year on this Q5 world is 1808. London is held by the French. Wellington holds Northern England. The Cabal seems to be giving all their aid to the French and some other Mystic force is helping Wellington. Homeline wants to know who could hold off the Cabal. More importantly, could this person be a potential ally?

Meanwhile, Homeline France is furious. "How dare the Icops do anything to thwart a French conquest of Britain." The French are screaming "Cultural Imperialism!" So the Icops have to contact a mysterious Mystic while keeping a bitter and offended pack of nationalist from back home off their backs.

Remember, Homeline France routinely pulls these kind of stunts.

How well known is this parallel on Homeline? If it was originally discovered to have Cabal/mystic influence, Infinity could have clamped down on it early, kept it at least fairly secret. But if that wasn't discovered until later (initial contact was focused on the invasion of England and Napoleonic steamboats), then it could be better known on Homeline.

This would matter as to how Homeline France tries to stick up for its counterpart. If the timeline is fairly secret, Homeline France might try to keep the I-Cops from investigating anything but the Cabal link. But if it's a public timeline, the issue would be a public one, and Homeline France might have a tougher time making the pro-Napoleon argument (it would probably depend on who was in power in Paris at the time, and relations with U.K.).

To extend the Homeline politics further, perhaps Homeline America is sympathetic to France in this case, because the timeline's U.S. just invaded Canada. Meanwhile, Homeline Russia is anti-Napoleon.


Couldn't the British government complain, "Infinity is actually tilted against Britain - keeps having to work against British dominant interests on Q6 & Q7"?

[Astromancer]

Originally Posted by Prince Charon

Homeline Britain is likely to object to this, a fair bit. Possibly also Homeline Germany, and other Homeline countries that don't like Napoleon, but mostly Britain.

True enough, but in setting, France is supposed to be the unreasonable nation.

The main point of this setting is Napoleonic military maneuvers in Jane Austen's England with secret magic of unknown type and origin to the PCs. Please read Jonathan Strange and Mr. Norrell for twisted inspiration, and also read some Ramsey Campbell and ostentatiously display one of his books beside your GMs screen during play.

[Astromancer]

Originally Posted by fchase8

How well known is this parallel on Homeline? If it was originally discovered to have Cabal/mystic influence, Infinity could have clamped down on it early, kept it at least fairly secret. But if that wasn't discovered until later (initial contact was focused on the invasion of England and Napoleonic steamboats), then it could be better known on Homeline.

This would matter as to how Homeline France tries to stick up for its counterpart. If the timeline is fairly secret, Homeline France might try to keep the I-Cops from investigating anything but the Cabal link. But if it's a public timeline, the issue would be a public one, and Homeline France might have a tougher time making the pro-Napoleon argument (it would probably depend on who was in power in Paris at the time, and relations with U.K.).

To extend the Homeline politics further, perhaps Homeline America is sympathetic to France in this case, because the timeline's U.S. just invaded Canada. Meanwhile, Homeline Russia is anti-Napoleon.


Couldn't the British government complain, "Infinity is actually tilted against Britain - keeps having to work against British dominant interests on Q6 & Q7"?

The I-cops in setting are supposed to have to deal with nationalism and easily hurt feeling from several sources. I was just introducing politics from Homeline into the actions of the PCs as a new twist/complication.

As to how well know any parallel is, remember how small an organization the I-cops are compared to the territory they have to cover. The parallel can be as little or as well known as fits your campaign. cabal infiltration was only recently discovered.

[ericthered]

Which nations in which timelines a nation supports is fertile ground for both speculation and politics. How much do you care about any one copy of france? what about your ancestors? Do homeline nations try to claim sovereignty over the affairs of specific others? what can they actually do?

[Astromancer]

Originally Posted by ericthered

Which nations in which timelines a nation supports is fertile ground for both speculation and politics. How much do you care about any one copy of france? what about your ancestors? Do homeline nations try to claim sovereignty over the affairs of specific others? what can they actually do?

I'd start with the hints in the setting book, and then build on what you know about the culture of the nations themselves. France wants connection/dominance in setting, England and the U.S.A. seem far less concerned but friendly to out-time versions of themselves. China seems to think that they have rights over out-time Chinas, and responsibilities to them as well.

Figure it out your way.

[PTTG]

More of a seed, but Dietrich von Choltitz could have been purged or simply killed in battle before the end of the war. His replacement, unlike him, could very well have followed Hitler's orders to destroy Paris upon retreat, which seems like a fairly major change.

a France without Paris becomes a rather different place in the modern day. Likewise, a German retreat that was slowed by taking the effort to demolish the city may change the closing days of the war, either hindering the allies, or weakening the axis.

If we presume that the Nazis systematically loot and burn the city, then they have less time to retreat in a sensible way. The Allies would be able to pester the retreat the whole way, and reach Berlin some time sooner. Maybe this puts the east/west split farther east.

[Phil Masters]

I really doubt that the Nazis would have had the time to completely level the city, even if they started on D-Day - and diverting the military resources to do the job fast would have been stupid even by Hitler's standards.

And if they do a passing-fair job, well, Paris gets rebuilt in due course. It happened to plenty of other European cities. The French would be understandably royally ****** off, though, so some of the resources for that rebuilding would be diverted from the job of rebuilding Cologne and Berlin. The big likelihood is much more harsh terms for Germany in the post-war settlement, which opens up a whole sheaf of timeline possibilities, from "later, weaker EEC" to "full-on Morgenthau Plan".

[scc]

Originally Posted by Astromancer

Try this idea, Robert Fulton tried to get Napoleon to invest in steamboats. Napoleon didn't see how steampowered boats were possible. On this world (Bonapart-9, perhaps) Napoleon got it. Fulton's steam barges took the Grand Army across the channel against the winds and caught England by surprise. Another Army landed in Ireland and set up the Hiberian Republic.

The invasion happened in 1807 the local year on this Q5 world is 1808. London is held by the French. Wellington holds Northern England. The Cabal seems to be giving all their aid to the French and some other Mystic force is helping Wellington. Homeline wants to know who could hold off the Cabal. More importantly, could this person be a potential ally?

Meanwhile, Homeline France is furious. "How dare the Icops do anything to thwart a French conquest of Britain." The French are screaming "Cultural Imperialism!" So the Icops have to contact a mysterious Mystic while keeping a bitter and offended pack of nationalist from back home off their backs.

Remember, Homeline France routinely pulls these kind of stunts.

Actually I think that this idea is most likely to give Britain a greater edge then on Homeline unless his pitch gets accepted really early on, otherwise what he'll end up producing is something like the various wonder weapons the Nazi's cranked out during WW2

[PTTG]

That depends. If France was already using all her resources to fight, then certainly, a novel (and therefore experimental) design would almost certainly be less efficient than the tried-and-true. On the other hand, if Fulton is able to bring in other resources... maybe something as simple outfitting older civilian ships with his steam engine instead of building new or refitting military ships... then it's not necessarily a loss.

And don't overestimate the Black Swan effect. If the French show up moving against the wind, the pure confusion alone will be a powerful multiplier.

[Astromancer]

Originally Posted by PTTG

That depends. If France was already using all her resources to fight, then certainly, a novel (and therefore experimental) design would almost certainly be less efficient than the tried-and-true. On the other hand, if Fulton is able to bring in other resources... maybe something as simple outfitting older civilian ships with his steam engine instead of building new or refitting military ships... then it's not necessarily a loss.

And don't overestimate the Black Swan effect. If the French show up moving against the wind, the pure confusion alone will be a powerful multiplier.

I more or less assume that it is the element of surprise/shock that secures the French passage. A realistic 1807 steam barge is no match for a well used 1807 battleship even if it is depended on sail. Remember, the French had a brutal lack of top of the line naval commanders in this period.

This suggests that the British Navy is still in the game. I'd assume bases in Halifax, Bermuda, and the Bahamas. The Royal Navy in period was bitter/nasty towards the USA, so the Navy could be sowing dragon's teeth by antagonizing the Americans pointlessly.