Five Earths, All in a Row

[tshiggins]

Originally Posted by VulpesFulva

Seems legit to me. McVeigh deliberately picked April 19th for his attack for similar reasons.

Yeah, you should keep it as Sept. 11, or April 20 (the actual day of the shootings at Columbine).

I was working in the newsroom at The Fort Morgan Times, when both occurred. Long days.

[Prince Charon]

Originally Posted by tshiggins

Yeah, you should keep it as Sept. 11, or April 20 (the actual day of the shootings at Columbine).

I was working in the newsroom at The Fort Morgan Times, when both occurred. Long days.

I think I was at home on 9/11. I remember my father phoning, which woke me up, and telling me to turn on the news.

I was hoping I was still asleep.

Originally Posted by warellis

Hey Charon have you talked with anyone here about the worldline data you showed me in a PM on SB?

I'm just going to post them here as they are, and see if anyone can help me with the bits that are missing, or need to be fixed.

Crossroads-4a (Earth-Three, Victorian Earth, or Steampunk Earth), 1878

Current Affairs
Victoria, Queen and Empress, rules an Empire on which the sun never sets, alongside her beloved husband, Albert, who still lives thanks to the power of Victorian SCIENCE!, PLACEHOLDER.

Divergence Point
1823: James Haversham begins selling a patent medicine ('Haversham's Sovereign Cognitive Enhancer') which seems to enhance the mental faculties, as well as add magic to creative works made by those who take it.

Major Civilizations
Western (multipolar); Islamic (empire with rivals and satellite states); Orthodox (empire with rivals and satellite states); Chinese (empire); Japanese (empire)

Great Powers
Austro-Hungarian Empire (feudal, CR3); British Empire (semi-feudal representative democracies, CR2-4, mostly 1 worse for non-whites); France (semi-feudal representative democracy, CR3 for whites, CR4 for non-whites); Papal States (theocracy, CR4); Russian Empire (semi-feudal dictatorship, CR4); Scandinavian Federation (feudal representative democracies, CR2-3); Brazilian Empire (representative democracy, CR3); Holy Roman Empire (feudal with democratic elements, CR2); Japan (oligarchic monarchy, CR4 for Japanese and wealthy foreigners, CR5 for non-wealthy foreigners); Ottoman Empire (feudal, CR3-4); United States (representative democracy with oligarchic tendencies, CR3 for whites, CR4-5 for free non-whites, CR6 for the remaining slaves)

Worldline Data
TL: (5+2)^; Mana level: low
Quantum: 3; Infinity Class: Undiscovered; Centrum Zone: Inaccessible


Crossroads-4b (Earth-Four, Renaissance Earth, or Clockpunk Earth), 1555

Current Affairs
Elizabeth Tudor is High Queen of Britannia, while in Roma, the son of Pope Joan II, Rodrigo Borgia of Aragon, is Pope Leo X, and Venice has declared itself the capital of the Eastern Roman Empire.

Divergence Point
1457: A comet breaks up in Earth orbit, and people begin gaining strange powers.

Major Civilizations
Western (multipolar); Orthodox (Empire with rivals and satellite states); Islamic (Empire with satellite states); Chinese (empire); Indic (multipolar); West African (Empire with rivals)

Great Powers
British Empire (feudal, CR2); Holy Roman Empire (feudal with elective monarchy, CR1-5); Chinese Empire (feudal, CR 2-4); Ottoman Empire (theocracy, CR4); Akan Empire (feudal clan/tribal with cyclic monarchy, CR2); Japanese Empire (feudal, CR4)

Worldline Data
TL: (4+1)^-(4+2)^; Mana level: very low/wild
Quantum: 4; Infinity Class: Undiscovered; Centrum Zone: Inaccessible


Crossroads-4c (Middle Earth, Infopunk Earth, Earth-One, or Earth Prime), 2012

Current Affairs
PLACEHOLDER

Divergence Point
Mid twentieth century: Doctor Paul Van Zandt seems not to have been born.

Major Civilizations
Western (empire with rivals); Orthodox (empire with rivals); Islamic (multipolar); Chinese (empire); Japanese (unitary); Indic (empire)

Great Powers
United Kingdom (representative democracy, CR4); China (oligarchy, CR5?); France (representative democracy, CR4?); Germany (representative democracy, CR4?); Japan (representative democracy, CR4?); Russia (oligarchy, CR4?); United States (representative democracy, CR3); Brazil (representative democracy, CR?), India (representative democracy, CR?)

Worldline Data
TL: 8; Mana level: low
Quantum: 5; Infinity Class: Undiscovered; Centrum Zone: Inaccessible


Crossroads-4d (Fantasy Earth, Earth-Five, or Dungeonpunk Earth), 514

Current Affairs
The Byzantine Civil War has begun, while in what we would call North America, the Proto-Iroquois Confederation has expanded far enough north to meet an empire run be Goblins and Orcs.

Divergence Point
Unknown: the earliest divergence could be more than 100,000 years ago, as the Neanderthals and Cro Magnons evolved several viable races that do not exist on Homeline, and people in the Americas domesticated some of the megafauna. This world had high historical inertia up until the death of Constantine at the Battle of the Milvian Bridge in 312 CE.

Major Civilizations
Roman (bipolar empire); Nordo-Germanic (diffuse); Celtic (multipolar); Chinese (empire); Indic (multipolar); West African (diffuse); Proto-Iroquois (empire)

Great Powers
Western Roman Empire (feudal with democratic elements, CR2-4 for citizens, CR4 for free non-citizens, CR5 for slaves); Eastern Roman Empire (partially-democratic dictatorship in civil war, CR varies, but is generally CR5 for slaves); Chinese Empire (feudal, CR2-4); Proto-Iroquois Confederation (clan/tribal representative democracy, CR2); Pharonate of Kush (theocracy, CR4); <Orc/Goblin Empire> (feudal clan/tribal, CR1-3 for non-slaves, CR 4-5 for slaves)

Worldline Data
TL: 2^-3^; Mana level: none
Quantum: 6; Infinity Class: Undiscovered; Centrum Zone: Undiscovered


Crossroads-4e (Earth-Two, Dieselpunk Earth, or eventually Atompunk Earth), 1940

Current Affairs
Weird War II rages, while superheroes come out of the shadows.

Divergence Point
Unknown

Major Civilizations
Western (multipolar); Orthodox (empire with rivals); Islamic (multipolar); Chinese (empire); Japanese (unitary); Indic (empire)

Great Powers
United Kingdom (representative democracy with oligarchic tendencies, CR3); Germany (dictatorship, CR6); Italy (dictatorship, CR5); Japan (oligarchic dictatorship, CR5); Soviet Union (dictatorship, CR6); United States (representative democracy with oligarchic tendencies, CR3 for whites, CR4 for non-whites in the North, CR5 for non-whites in the South)

Worldline Data
TL: (6+1)^; Mana level: primarily no mana, with rare variations
Quantum: 7; Infinity Class: Undiscovered; Centrum Zone: Undiscovered


You can see where there are issues, yes?

[warellis]

Originally Posted by Prince Charon

Crossroads-4c (Middle Earth, Infopunk Earth, Earth-One, or Earth Prime), 2012

Current Affairs
PLACEHOLDER

Divergence Point
Mid twentieth century: Doctor Paul Van Zandt seems not to have been born.

Major Civilizations
Western (multipolar); Orthodox (multipolar); Islamic (multipolar); Chinese (empire); Japanese (unitary); Indic (unitary)

Great Powers
United Kingdom (representative democracy, CR4); China (oligarchy, CR5?); France (representative democracy, CR4?); Germany (representative democracy, CR4?); Japan (representative democracy, CR4?); Russia (oligarchy, CR4?); United States (representative democracy, CR3); Brazil (representative democracy, CR?), India (representative democracy, CR?)

Worldline Data
TL: 8; Mana level: low
Quantum: 5; Infinity Class: Undiscovered; Centrum Zone: Inaccessible

We've talked about this before, but I think the "Western (multipolar)" category is incorrect for Inp-Earth. As I mentioned before, the US is currently the most powerful nation on the planet by far. It is a super power, not merely a great power, but above that. "Multipolar" implies that there are many/several nations similar to the United States in power, but that really isn't the case since the US is above everyone else currently. That's why I think it should be "Western (Empire with rivals). Look at the description in Infinite Worlds:

Empire with rivals: Although the empire is by far the most powerful state within the civilization, other states retain considerable independence and might conceivably ally against it, or back other civilizations’ empires against it diplomatically or militarily. Imperial states are not necessarily dictatorships; the United States, under this definition, has been a democratic empire with rivals dominating Western civilization since 1945.

[warellis]

So Charon have you read my post about what I mentioned for the Inp-Earth writeup?

[Prince Charon]

Originally Posted by warellis

So Charon have you read my post about what I mentioned for the Inp-Earth writeup?

Still thinking about it, and waiting to see if anyone else wants to comment.

[warellis]

Originally Posted by Prince Charon

Still thinking about it, and waiting to see if anyone else wants to comment.

I'm looking again at Inp-Earth and it says Orthodox (multipolar), but shouldn't it be "Orthodox (Empire with rivals)"? Russia is still the most powerful civilization among the Orthodox civilizations/countries right? It's always the big bear/threat that Eastern European countries use to get more funding from NATO right?

Also looking at Indic (unitary), I think that should be Indic (empire). India isn't a homogenous state like Japan but has many different ethnicities. These all formed various kingdoms, civilizations and such that eventually became incorporated into what we know as India today.

[Prince Charon]

Originally Posted by warellis

I'm looking again at Inp-Earth and it says Orthodox (multipolar), but shouldn't it be "Orthodox (Empire with rivals)"? Russia is still the most powerful civilization among the Orthodox civilizations/countries right? It's always the big bear/threat that Eastern European countries use to get more funding from NATO right?

This I think I mostly agree with.

Originally Posted by warellis

Also looking at Indic (unitary), I think that should be Indic (empire). India isn't a homogenous state like Japan but has many different ethnicities. These all formed various kingdoms, civilizations and such that eventually became incorporated into what we know as India today.

This I'm not so sure about, but I suppose it depends on how we interpret the definition of 'Empire' given in the books.

*goes to check something*

OK, looking at the infobox in the GURPSwiki article on GURPS Technomancer, it looks like you're right, and I'll be adjusting that in my master copy, as the 'Major Civilizations' section at least ought to be the same between Merlin-1 and Crossroads-4c (and Real Life). The Great Powers are clearly different, though, which leaves me wondering about the Control Ratings.

Still hoping more people will comment and offer suggestions, since I posted them for exactly that reason.

EDIT: OK, fixed. Also fixed Orthodox and Indic in Crossroads-4e (Dp-Earth), and modified the CRs for some of the Great Powers there, based on those in Echo, 1945-1963 (after the period given, but finding infoboxes for WWII-era Earths is annoyingly difficult). Other changes still pending.

[warellis]

I've been thinking something would the churches, like the American Stone-Campbell Restormation movement churches, that belong to Christian Primitivism aka Restorationism attempt to go to Fa-Earth to learn more about the Apostolic-era church? Granted it's 400 years past the era, but Fa-Earth is closest chronologically to that era and I wonder if some of the churches of the Restoration movement may try to send groups to learn more about early church practices. Considering the age some of the beings on Fa-Earth can live to, they might be able to get better sourced information about early Christianity from a source that would/could have seen it grow in its early years.

Also regarding Dsp-UK, what CR would you consider its colonies to be at?

Regarding Clp-Earth, is the Akan Empire the Ashanti Empire? And I thought feudalism in England had been essentially eliminated by the War of the Roses? This also relates to Clp-Earth.

[warellis]

Also I've been thinking about Fa-Earth. It's been mentioned it'll become Dungeonpunk Earth, so have you looked at the Urbis thread in SJGames Forum for any ideas? The author of the thread has a website about his fantasy world undergoing a magic industrial revolution.

[Prince Charon]

Originally Posted by warellis

I've been thinking something would the churches, like the American Stone-Campbell Restormation movement churches, that belong to Christian Primitivism aka Restorationism attempt to go to Fa-Earth to learn more about the Apostolic-era church? Granted it's 400 years past the era, but Fa-Earth is closest chronologically to that era and I wonder if some of the churches of the Restoration movement may try to send groups to learn more about early church practices. Considering the age some of the beings on Fa-Earth can live to, they might be able to get better sourced information about early Christianity from a source that would/could have seen it grow in its early years.

It'll be a while before they have that opportunity, but I can certaqinly see them trying. They're likely to find it very strange, and if they don't bother to hire very good local guides, and get some training in languages and customs, run the risk of insulting someone who'll kill them for it.

Originally Posted by warellis

Also regarding Dsp-UK, what CR would you consider its colonies to be at?

Probably depends on the colony. Not likely to be higher than 5, or even at 5, anywhere in the British Empire, outside of penal colonies, if any remain. Mostly, it'll be one level worse for the natives than it is for the colonists, so 3/4.

Originally Posted by warellis

Regarding Clp-Earth, is the Akan Empire the Ashanti Empire?

Not exactly, though they both developed from the same roots. The Ashanti Empire didn't exist, yet, but the Akan people did, and were a growing nation. The Akan Empire covers a wider area, including most of modern Ghana and Togo, and large parts of Ivory Coast, Benin, Nigeria, and Liberia, due to having very good boats, and being quite good at road-building. The tribal leaders are quick to pick up any technological innovations they can get from their European trading partners, and some are working on developing better educational standards, so that they can better develop their own innovations, instead of staying behind the crazy pink chaps.

Not clear on whether any European universities would accept African students in this time period, but if they did, they'd be getting a lot for the Akan, mostly the sons of tribal leaders.

Originally Posted by warellis

And I thought feudalism in England had been essentially eliminated by the War of the Roses? This also relates to Clp-Earth.

I suppose it depends on how you define feudalism, but the civil war required certain concessions of Her Majesty, hence her being titled High Queen, rather than Queen (she still has rather a lot of legal power, more than many feudal kings, but there are limits). It could also be called a federal monarchy, rather than a feudal one - the point is that the higher-ranking Lords have more power on their own lands than they did under her father, brother, or sister, but not always the same amount, or the same specific powers. The whole thing is still rather in flux, and may change a great deal in the next few decades.

One thing I've been considering is that one of the Catholic Dukes or Earls (it would have to be a very valuable one to pull this off) offered to support Elizabeth in return for the right for his people to practice Catholicism on his own lands. That's the only special right he asked for (perhaps he really hated Bloody Mary and/or Phillip II for other reasons; any candidates anyone can think of?), and so it's the only one he got: There is no established Church in his territory, Protestants and Catholics may worship as they please, but he otherwise has no more rights than he did under Henry VIII or Edward VI, nor do any monasteries and such that he might allow to be established have any special protections.

Originally Posted by warellis

Also I've been thinking about Fa-Earth. It's been mentioned it'll become Dungeonpunk Earth, so have you looked at the Urbis thread in SJGames Forum for any ideas? The author of the thread has a website about his fantasy world undergoing a magic industrial revolution.

I've looked, and I'll look again (there's some interesting stuff, there), but I'm still deciding what, if anything, will be integrated.


On another note, I seem to be having annoying luck with SB.com, as it keeps conking out when I'm getting ready to go to the version of this thread, there. Going to try again later today, but if you've said something there that you haven't here, you might want to crosspost it.