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Old 06-13-2019, 01:29 PM   #1
kjamma4
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Chicagoland Area, Illinois
Default You roll a 5 when entering HTH and the hex you came from is now occupied?

If you are disengaged and enter an enemy's hex for HTH combat but during the remainder of movement, someone else enters the hex you were in prior to moving into HTH, what happens if the defense roll is a 5?

You go back to the hex but fall down?
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Old 06-13-2019, 01:49 PM   #2
Skarg
 
Join Date: May 2015
Default Re: You roll a 5 when entering HTH and the hex you came from is now occupied?

Resolve the HTH initiation attempt at the time the figure attempts to move into the target's hex (before the remainder of the movement phase), so there is no such confusion.

e.g. You move to the rear hex and then when you say you are attempting HTH, roll the die immediately and apply the result, before anyone could try to also move into that rear hex. If you roll a 5, you stop your movement starting in the target's rear hex, and that hex is now blocked to other figures during the rest of movement.
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Old 06-13-2019, 01:52 PM   #3
Chris Rice
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: London Uk, but originally from Scotland
Default Re: You roll a 5 when entering HTH and the hex you came from is now occupied?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kjamma4 View Post
If you are disengaged and enter an enemy's hex for HTH combat but during the remainder of movement, someone else enters the hex you were in prior to moving into HTH, what happens if the defense roll is a 5?

You go back to the hex but fall down?
Surely the Defence roll is made immediately there is an attempt at HTH, so the attacker would immediately revert to their original hex. There would be no opportunity for another figure to enter that hex in the meantime.
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Old 06-13-2019, 01:57 PM   #4
kjamma4
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Chicagoland Area, Illinois
Default Re: You roll a 5 when entering HTH and the hex you came from is now occupied?

I'm looking at an older version right now but it says that a disengaged figure picks option (b) to initiate HTH combat and moves onto the enemy's hex during movement and attacks during combat.

It further says that when a figure is attacked HTH, it immediately rolls the die.

Notwithstanding the RAW, your explanation makes sense as the only way you COULD enter the enemy hex is to initiate HTH - no other option is available at that point.

Thanks.
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Old 06-13-2019, 02:10 PM   #5
Skarg
 
Join Date: May 2015
Default Re: You roll a 5 when entering HTH and the hex you came from is now occupied?

I believe what that first old line means is that if you manage to get someone into HTH through their rear hex during Movement (as opposed to initiating HTH as an action, which is the only way to do it when Engaged), then you will get to do a physical attack for damage during the Action phase.

i.e.
Movement Phase:
Bob moves, initiates HTH and succeeds.
Other figures move.

Action Phase:
Carl initiates HTH with someone else and succeeds, as an action.
Bob gets to physically attack his foe in HTH for damage.
(Carl took his action this turn, so he gets no physical attack this turn.)
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Old 06-13-2019, 09:32 PM   #6
Axly Suregrip
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Default Re: You roll a 5 when entering HTH and the hex you came from is now occupied?

On a related topic: Do you still get to attack when a HTH attempt is rejected with a 5 or 6? (we never did)

When you initiate HTH and if you roll a 1,2,3,4 you succeed in moving onto your foe's hex (often during actions phase but either way). And in the same turn during actions you are allowed to attack your foe: Hopefully you had a dagger in hand when you initiated HTH or bare handed.

What if you roll a 5 or 6. You got rejected from HTH. Do you still get to attack during actions. If you had a dagger out then with that. If any other weapon then you dropped it before your failed HTH engagement. So, do you get to do a punch or dagger stab in that same action phase from 1 hex range?
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Old 06-14-2019, 12:47 AM   #7
Skarg
 
Join Date: May 2015
Default Re: You roll a 5 when entering HTH and the hex you came from is now occupied?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Axly Suregrip View Post
On a related topic: Do you still get to attack when a HTH attempt is rejected with a 5 or 6? (we never did)

When you initiate HTH and if you roll a 1,2,3,4 you succeed in moving onto your foe's hex (often during actions phase but either way). And in the same turn during actions you are allowed to attack your foe: Hopefully you had a dagger in hand when you initiated HTH or bare handed.

What if you roll a 5 or 6. You got rejected from HTH. Do you still get to attack during actions. If you had a dagger out then with that. If any other weapon then you dropped it before your failed HTH engagement. So, do you get to do a punch or dagger stab in that same action phase from 1 hex range?
Clearly not if HTH was attempted as an action.

But if your HTH attempt was during the Movement phase, then I think it's not clearly defined in the rules. It seems to me that attempting HTH during movement, and failing, should probably count as the figure's entire action. A deciding point for me about that is that if the figure is allowed to take another action after failing to get into HTH during Movement, is that then they could also use their Action to attempt HTH, which to me would excessive, especially if they have higher adjDX.
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Old 06-14-2019, 01:01 AM   #8
larsdangly
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Default Re: You roll a 5 when entering HTH and the hex you came from is now occupied?

Attempting to enter HTH is an action; it happens in the action phase. Thus, you are still in the hex in question when your foe's movement phase occurs.
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Old 06-14-2019, 09:01 AM   #9
Skarg
 
Join Date: May 2015
Default Re: You roll a 5 when entering HTH and the hex you came from is now occupied?

Quote:
Originally Posted by larsdangly View Post
Attempting to enter HTH is an action; it happens in the action phase. Thus, you are still in the hex in question when your foe's movement phase occurs.
Except when you are not engaged during your movement phase and manage to reach a HTH target without getting engaged along the way. Then it happens during your movement. But I'd still tend to consider it your action for the turn, at least if you fail. (There are some indications that, if you succeeded, you might also get a HTH attack for damage during Action, but that's yet another question.)

Last edited by Skarg; 06-14-2019 at 09:11 AM.
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Old 06-19-2019, 12:18 PM   #10
Helborn
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Default Re: You roll a 5 when entering HTH and the hex you came from is now occupied?

Quote:
Originally Posted by larsdangly View Post
Attempting to enter HTH is an action; it happens in the action phase. Thus, you are still in the hex in question when your foe's movement phase occurs.

I think ITL is clear - HTH attempt takes place during movement even if engaged and the attacker loses his attack if the HTH fails (5 or 6) this is despite the instructions for Option (o) on pg 103.


I tend to look at the detailed description rather than than the option description. (Usually.....)



ITL pg 116 / 117
To initiate HTH combat, a figure moves onto the enemy’s
hex. If the attacking figure is disengaged, this is a regular
move
. If the attacking figure is engaged, he may shift onto a
figure engaging him to attempt HTH, even if he is engaged
with other figures as well.
When you’re surrounded by foes,
sometimes the best thing you can do is jump on one of them!
If the attacker had a dagger or main-gauche ready, he may
use it in HTH. Otherwise, he drops his ready weapon/shield
in the hex he came from and attacks bare-handed.
When a figure is attacked HTH, it immediately (that is,
still in the movement phase)
rolls one die to determine its
defense against the HTH attack, as follows:



On a 6, the defender does not drop his weapon, and
automatically hits the attacker. This hit happens immediately.
The defender can still make an attack (or take other action)
that turn. The attacker must retreat one hex as above. HTH
combat does not take place. (If the attacker jumped the
defender from behind, or if the defender is unarmed and does
not have unarmed-combat skill, ignore a 6 and roll again.)
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