[RPM] Altered Traits: DR with Absorption

[vicky_molokh]

Greetings, all!

An idea that I had before, and now encountered independently reinvented by one of my players while making plans for an upcoming fantasy game. The basic idea is to gain DR with Absorption, then spend the absorbed points on refilling ER (Mana Reserve). Of course, this can only be meaningfully done while having at least 3 levels of DR (+Absorption), which is worth roughly [30], give or take depending on other modifiers.

Now, I wonder what would be the required Effects. I'm guessing that for a shield that absorbs damage caused by kinetic, thermal, chemical or radiant energy, it takes a Greater Transform Energy effect + a Transform Magic effect. I'm not sure if Transform Magic should be Lesser or Greater. This sort of DR makes sense with Force Field.

But maybe for mages of Body, it would make sense to take a different path. E.g. make an ongoing effect that that transforms forming wounds into mana. I'm guessing this sort of DR would be without Force Field, possibly require Eyes +10%, and require a Transform Body instead of Transform Energy. But should it be Lesser or Greater?

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Anyway, it seems that while potentially handy (i.e. just put your hand over the fire and wait for the reserve to recharge, no more rolls required), it takes a huge amount of energy to set up. Assuming no Greater Effects, that's about 16 for two Transforms, plus 30 for the Altered Traits, plus duration. So 50ish energy. No laughing matter.

With one Greater Effect, that's 150 energy. With two, it's 250! This is the sort of case where every -20% on the trait and every -5% on the spell cost matters a lot.

So, thoughts? Ideas? Additions? Opinions? Comments?
Thanks in advance!

[munin]

Doesn't actually reduce damage, -100%?

[Nereidalbel]

Originally Posted by munin

Doesn't actually reduce damage, -100%?

That should be a nice cost reduction, if you don't mind putting your hand in the fire being very, very painful!

[McAllister]

As written, DR with Absorption is pretty flexible: you can put the points it absorbs towards anything, right? And it's accordingly expensive. Given that, I think the Transform Magic effect can be Lesser. I'm even wondering if you can't get away with dropping the Transform Magic effect: DR with Absorption lets you spend what you absorb on FP (and by extension, ER).

Look at it this way: if you use Create Energy to summon sunlight to attack a vampire, you're destroying undead, but you don't need Destroy Undead. Similarly, I feel that if you're using DR from a ritual to transform magic, that doesn't necessarily mean you need the ritual to Transform Magic.

P.S. is this kosher per stacking rules? Does it count as using magic to get magic? Idhmbwm but it seems like it might.

[Nereidalbel]

Originally Posted by McAllister

As written, DR with Absorption is pretty flexible: you can put the points it absorbs towards anything, right? And it's accordingly expensive. Given that, I think the Transform Magic effect can be Lesser. I'm even wondering if you can't get away with dropping the Transform Magic effect: DR with Absorption lets you spend what you absorb on FP (and by extension, ER).

Look at it this way: if you use Create Energy to summon sunlight to attack a vampire, you're destroying undead, but you don't need Destroy Undead. Similarly, I feel that if you're using DR from a ritual to transform magic, that doesn't necessarily mean you need the ritual to Transform Magic.

P.S. is this kosher per stacking rules? Does it count as using magic to get magic? Idhmbwm but it seems like it might.

It's a net loss of energy as far as stacking rules go, which is good, since they're meant to prevent infinite power abuses. And the Absorption enhancement comes in 2 levels, either fixed trait when you buy it, or any trait.

[Christopher R. Rice]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

An idea that I had before, and now encountered independently reinvented by one of my players while making plans for an upcoming fantasy game. The basic idea is to gain DR with Absorption, then spend the absorbed points on refilling ER (Mana Reserve). Of course, this can only be meaningfully done while having at least 3 levels of DR (+Absorption), which is worth roughly [30], give or take depending on other modifiers.

Yeah, that sounds about right for a ongoing effect that heals your mana reserve.

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

Now, I wonder what would be the required Effects. I'm guessing that for a shield that absorbs damage caused by kinetic, thermal, chemical or radiant energy, it takes a Greater Transform Energy effect + a Transform Magic effect. I'm not sure if Transform Magic should be Lesser or Greater. This sort of DR makes sense with Force Field.

You don't need the Transform Magic effect, just state that Absorption heals your mana reserve and you're good. I don't often say this - but I don't like how DR (Absorption) works - I've been using PKs rules since I found them and they are by far saner then those in the Basic Set.

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

But maybe for mages of Body, it would make sense to take a different path. E.g. make an ongoing effect that that transforms forming wounds into mana. I'm guessing this sort of DR would be without Force Field, possibly require Eyes +10%, and require a Transform Body instead of Transform Energy. But should it be Lesser or Greater?

I have no idea what you said here, please explain.

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

Anyway, it seems that while potentially handy (i.e. just put your hand over the fire and wait for the reserve to recharge, no more rolls required), it takes a huge amount of energy to set up. Assuming no Greater Effects, that's about 16 for two Transforms, plus 30 for the Altered Traits, plus duration. So 50ish energy. No laughing matter.

Well, I kind of did exactly this for one of my example metatronic generators for RPM (see my post here in this thread). What I've done for similar effects is to use Healing to increase the mana reserve every time you get hit. You still take the damage, but it heals your reserve by whatever amount you suffered or until you run out of healing die (converted to a flat number of course, so 1d = 4). So if you had a spell up that converted up to 3d (or 11 points) of damage into your mana reserve, you'd just buy it as a Transform effect. Now, you wouldn't add Duration, because instead of getting instantly healed, you're healing is delayed. I've called up to 4d of Healing a Lesser effect for this one purpose.

[PK]

I would never let a trait that was granted via spell be used to refill your mana reserve. That's a clear violation of "magic cannot improve magic" to my eye. (The fact that it's horribly inefficient is beside the point.)

[Christopher R. Rice]

Originally Posted by PK

I would never let a trait that was granted via spell be used to refill your mana reserve. That's a clear violation of "magic cannot improve magic" to my eye. (The fact that it's horribly inefficient is beside the point.)

Huh. Refilling a mana reserve faster seems like it would be okay...let me ask then, can you not heal a ER like you would FP? I've done that in the past without too much issue or abuse. It also makes some iconic magic items impossible to reproduce in RPM...

Edit: Duh. Magic tools. Duh. Hat Goes on Foot. DUH.

[vierasmarius]

I would at least allow the approach of gaining mana from sustaining injuries. This is effectively a form of Voluntary Sacrifice (Absorption's exchange rate of HP -> Energy may need to be tweaked to make it worthwhile). Any non-mana use of Absorption should be fine though (blocking damage and turning into HP, FP or temporary character points).

Question: Can injuries sustained from making a Voluntary Sacrifice be healed via magic?

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by Ghostdancer

You don't need the Transform Magic effect, just state that Absorption heals your mana reserve and you're good. I don't often say this - but I don't like how DR (Absorption) works - I've been using PKs rules since I found them and they are by far saner then those in the Basic Set.

I thought that afflicting an Absorptive DR in a setting that includes magic will require Transform, since I don't see another way to explain such a transformative effect.

Originally Posted by Ghostdancer

I have no idea what you said here, please explain.

The idea is an effect that transforms wounds into energy. So you get wounded less, and get some goodies instead. But in this specific case it's an ongoing effect, expressed in the form of DR (+Absorption). That's the idea. Do I make sense now?