Gaming Ballistic - GURPS Content Posts

[Plane]

Do you recall if Bites function like an incrementing weapon (TG16) where (TG21) you can Attack to "improve control of an existing grapple"?

If so, would that be mutually exclusive with Worrying (no attack roll, no active defences, just roll damage) and you would make attack rolls to add CP which could be defended against?

If that's the case, I'm not really certain what skill to use. Whether it still counts as a strike like the initial hit (no halved penalties for hit location) seems like it wouldn't matter anymore since "attacks to improve position .. do not suffer penalties for hit location" but would you still use the Brawling skill even though it approaches Biting like Striking? Or would you need to shift to DX or a Grappling skill to make "Attack to Improve Control" rolls?

[DouglasCole]

Originally Posted by Plane

Do you recall if Bites function like an incrementing weapon (TG16) where (TG21) you can Attack to "improve control of an existing grapple"?

Given what my cats have done to me, I'd say "yes," they can increment. You actually see this in nature all the time, as animals work to improve a killing grip on prey.

If so, would that be mutually exclusive with Worrying (no attack roll, no active defences, just roll damage) and you would make attack rolls to add CP which could be defended against?

In this particular case, I'd say that no, don't use those rules. You can spend CP to inflict damage, you can attack to improve a grapple, and I'd definitely allow you - since a worry is usually a free action - do roll to improve the grapple, spend CP freely to do damage, in one action.

If that's the case, I'm not really certain what skill to use. Whether it still counts as a strike like the initial hit (no halved penalties for hit location) seems like it wouldn't matter anymore since "attacks to improve position .. do not suffer penalties for hit location" but would you still use the Brawling skill even though it approaches Biting like Striking? Or would you need to shift to DX or a Grappling skill to make "Attack to Improve Control" rolls?

I'd definitely allow DX or Brawling for this, or best grappling skill.

[Plane]

Originally Posted by DouglasCole

You can spend CP to inflict damage, you can attack to improve a grapple, and I'd definitely allow you - since a worry is usually a free action - do roll to improve the grapple, spend CP freely to do damage, in one action.

I'd definitely allow DX or Brawling for this, or best grappling skill.

MA119 says Worrying "counts as an attack" and Zombies 109 "requires an Attack or an All-Out Attack, but it automatically maintains the grapple and hits for damage"

Not sure why Zombies doesn't mention Committed Attack since it's from MA and I think MA is where Zombies found Worrying...

I was thinking you could AOA:Strong for +2 to worrying damage or AOA:Double to Worry+Increment.

Do you need to spend CP to do worrying damage now, like with strangling? I don't think it's in TG but it makes sense or else worrying would become too much better than strangling.

[DouglasCole]

So, my first ever convention as a dealer has come and gone: CONVergence 2019. In the following post I rapid-fire my impressions.

CONVergence 2019: Quick Convention Report

[DouglasCole]

For what it's worth, I've applied to be a vendor at Con of the North in February 2020.

[DouglasCole]

Thursday is GURPSDay! June 21 to July 11, 2019

[Plane]

http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?p=2149660 in 2018 you had replied...

Originally Posted by DouglasCole

Aw poop. I think that was maybe in an original draft.

Nope: it's learning that I put into Dungeon Grappling, my grappling book for That Other Game.

"COUNTER-GRAPPLING. You can always attempt to grab a foe back. Attack normally, and if you hit roll for CP—though both the hit roll and the damage roll may be penalized due to the grapple that’s on you! You may apply that damage either to put CP on your opponent, or to reduce the CP your opponent has on you. You may freely allocate control between increasing the CP on the foe and reducing CP applied by foes on the grappler making the attack roll."

Dungeon Grappling, p. 24

Originally Posted by DouglasCole

No, just a mistake on my part. In the rules you have to choose between an attack to increase control and an attack to break free, because if you attack to break free, once you've done so, you can apply CP to your foe at a ratio of 2 earned to 1 applied.

As noted in my earlier post: that's a needless complication...but it IS what's written in the book.

Originally Posted by DouglasCole

It's not errata, because the rule is accurate and playable as written; it would be an update.

Do you think these could be treated as 2 different approaches? Break Free has 2 drawbacks:

1) CP rolled MUST be spent toward reducing enemy's CP first
2) excess is halved before establishing a new grapple.

Seems like Counter-Grappling might have 6 drawbacks that would keep Break Free competitive with it though:

1) since it uses basic grappling rolls, it can't be bought up above underlying skill using Technique Mastery like Break Free can
2) some traits/techniques give bonuses JUST to break free rolls, not to generic grappling rolls (examples TG24 Pickup TG29 Flexibility, TG 29 Slippery)
3) suffers hit location penalties, since it is establishing a new grapple (break free and improve do not suffer hit location penalties to attack rolls)
4) can't be used to end a joint lock without fully removing the grapple (TG38 lets Break Free do that)
5) can't do it Hands-Free like TG23 allows (Using Your Head)
6) can't roll against Escape instead of a Grappling skill or sub that for Trained ST to calculate CP

So would these be workable? CG is ideal if one can make the roll (more flexibility, better ratio for offense), but BF would be more likely to succeed since it will often by higher due to ignoring penalties and more sources of bonuses.

Escaping Parry / Grabbing Parry are the mutually exclusive versions of Break Free / Grapple so were you also thinking of merging those into a single defensive technique?

If the above bullet points aren't enough to keep Break Free competetive as a concept with Counter-Grappling, what if it got a new benefit like in exchange for the built 50% less CP for subsequent counter-grapple it got something like a 50% boost in trained ST used to calculate CP to subtract?

[DouglasCole]

Originally Posted by Plane

http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?p=2149660 in 2018 you had replied...




Do you think these could be treated as 2 different approaches? Break Free has 2 drawbacks:

1) CP rolled MUST be spent toward reducing enemy's CP first
2) excess is halved before establishing a new grapple.

Seems like Counter-Grappling might have 6 drawbacks that would keep Break Free competitive with it though:

1) since it uses basic grappling rolls, it can't be bought up above underlying skill using Technique Mastery like Break Free can
2) some traits/techniques give bonuses JUST to break free rolls, not to generic grappling rolls (examples TG24 Pickup TG29 Flexibility, TG 29 Slippery)
3) suffers hit location penalties, since it is establishing a new grapple (break free and improve do not suffer hit location penalties to attack rolls)
4) can't be used to end a joint lock without fully removing the grapple (TG38 lets Break Free do that)
5) can't do it Hands-Free like TG23 allows (Using Your Head)
6) can't roll against Escape instead of a Grappling skill or sub that for Trained ST to calculate CP

So would these be workable? CG is ideal if one can make the roll (more flexibility, better ratio for offense), but BF would be more likely to succeed since it will often by higher due to ignoring penalties and more sources of bonuses.

Escaping Parry / Grabbing Parry are the mutually exclusive versions of Break Free / Grapple so were you also thinking of merging those into a single defensive technique?

If the above bullet points aren't enough to keep Break Free competetive as a concept with Counter-Grappling, what if it got a new benefit like in exchange for the built 50% less CP for subsequent counter-grapple it got something like a 50% boost in trained ST used to calculate CP to subtract?

So, I feel like at the high level we're missing each other here. "Counter-grappling" and "attacking to break free" are basically the same thing. In TG, you have to decide whether to counter-grapple (attack the other guy's CP) or grapple (attack to get CP of your own). Later books said "ah, frack it. Do both at once if you like" and let you assign bits from the same die roll to either purpose. This has the advantage of being both simpler (I attack, I succeed, foe fails to parry, I roll damage . . . now I make a decision on what to do with that damage), and more realistic, in that many escapes involve simultaneously making space for movement and leveraging that space through yanking on the other guy to get out.

But it's definitely the basic use of grappling, and I'd cast a minimum of a raised eyebrow for anyone claiming Technique Mastery over it.

The point of treating counter-grappling more simply is because in TG *I made it too complicated.* Adding additional complexity is not the direction I wish to go if I want to see the rules used in play.

[DouglasCole]

GURPSDay! June 28 to July 19, 2019

[Plane]

Originally Posted by DouglasCole

Later books said "ah, frack it. Do both at once if you like" and let you assign bits from the same die roll to either purpose.

How do you deal with bonuses that only apply to break free but not to initiating grapples, like slippery or flexible? That's why I figured to have Break Free as a distinctive thing where you can use those bonuses (and get halved offensive use past 0) or allow a mixed Grapple/Break where you can split freely but don't get BF-exclusive bonuses.