Superior Contenders [Martial Arts]

[Celjabba]

If you wish the character to be a world class contender, I would raise his Will. At least up to 12.

All other things being equal, a character with boxing-22 and will-10 should easily defeat a boxing-17, will-14 one.
But the second one is far more likely to stick to the rigorous requirements and schedules (and pains) of world class training
Also, it will help with intimidation!

[Celjabba]

Here would be my first draft design of a mundane 240cp World Class boxing champion.

Attributes [125]
ST 12 [20]
DX 13 [60]
IQ 9 [-20]
HT 13 [30]

HP 14 [4]
Will 13 [20]
Per 10 [5]
FP 15 [6]

Damage 1d-1

Basic Speed 7 [10]
Basic Move 5 [-10]

Social Background
TL: 8 [0]
Cultural Familiarities: Western [0]
Languages: English (Native/native) [0]

Advantages [71]

Luck [15]

Combat Reflexes [15]
Fit [5]
High Pain Threshold [10]
Rapid Healing [5]
Striking ST (1) (Punch Only) [2]
Damage Resistance (1) (Ablative; Tough Skin) [1]

Ally (Agent) (25% of starting points) (15 or less) [3]
Patron (Sponsor) (6 or less; Minimal Intervention) [3]
Reputation (Boxing World Champion 2019) (2) (10 or less; Large class) [2]
Wealth (Comfortable) [10]

Perks [7]
Dabbler (background skills def+2, background skills def+2, background skills def+2, background skills def+2) [1]
Focused (Training) [1]
Neck Control (Boxing) [1]
Photogenic [1]
Special Exercises (DR with Ablative) [1]
Special Exercises (Striking ST +1)) [1]
Style Familiarity (Western Boxing) [1]

Disadvantages [-45]
Code of Honor (Fight Fair) [-5]
Enemy (Rival) (Equal in power to the PC) (9 or less) [-5]
Obsession (Become the best boxer in the world) (Long-Term Goal) (12 or less) [-10]
Overconfidence (12 or less) [-5]
Pacifism (Cannot Kill) [-15]
Reputation (Accidental killer) (-2) (15 or less; Large class) [-5]

Quirks [-5]
_Unused Quirk 1 [-1]
_Unused Quirk 2 [-1]
_Unused Quirk 3 [-1]
_Unused Quirk 4 [-1]
_Unused Quirk 5 [-1]

Skills [85]

Boxing DX/A - DX+7 20 [28]
Boxing Sport DX/A - DX+7 20 [12]
Feint (Boxing) Tech/H - 22 [3]
Targeted Attack(Boxing Punch/Face) (Boxing) Tech/H - 18 [4]

Savoir-Faire (Boxing Ring) IQ/E - IQ+3 12 [8]
Intimidation Will/A - Will+1 14 [4]
Performance IQ/A - IQ+2 11 [8]
Games (Boxing) IQ/E - IQ+1 10 [2]

Sports (Fitness training) DX/A - DX+0 13 [2]
Dancing DX/A - DX-1 12 [1]
Lifting HT/A - HT+0 13 [2]
Running HT/A - HT+0 13 [2]

Area Knowledge (Home) IQ/E - IQ+0 9 [1]
Carousing HT/A - HT+1 14 [2]
Computer Operation/TL3 IQ/E - IQ+0 9 [1]
Current Affairs/TL3 (Sports) IQ/E - IQ+2 11 [4]
Driving/TL3 (Automobile) DX/A - DX-1 12 [1]
First Aid/TL3 (Human) IQ/E - IQ+0 9 [1]
Housekeeping IQ/E - IQ+0 9 [1]

4 background skills at default +2 (dabbler)

Edit : reduced ST to 12 and corrected the ennemy price. See AlexanderHowl post under to minimax the design.
For an heavier boxer, adjust to ST 14 and drop basic speed 1 level.

[AlexanderHowl]

I am curious about a few things. First, why Striking ST+1 when you have ST 13? You will do the same punch damage either way. Second, why Boxing-20 and Boxing Sport-20? For the same amount of points, you could get Boxing-22 and Boxing Sport-20 or Boxing-20 and Boxing Sport-22. Third, why not keep Will, Per, and the skills at the same level and raise his IQ to 10? You would end up spending the same amount of points (you would save 5 CP on Will, 5 CP on Per, and 10 CP in IQ-based skills). Fourth, why is the Enemy so valuable? Rivals give half as many points as Hunters because they are not trying to imprison or kill you.

[Celjabba]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

I am curious about a few things. First, what good is Striking ST+1 when you have ST 13? You will do the same punch damage either way. Second, what good is Boxing-20 and Boxing Sport-20? For the same amount of points, you could get Boxing-22 and Boxing Sport-20 or Boxing-20 and Boxing Sport-22. Third, why not keep Will, Per, and the skills at the same level and raise his IQ to 10? You would end up spending the same amount of points (you would save 5 CP on Will, 5 CP on Per, and 10 CP in IQ-based skills). Fourth, why is the Enemy so valuable? Rivals give half as many points as Hunters because they are not trying to imprison or kill you.

The ennemy is a mistake. Should be a rival - corrected, thanks.

ST : I first had striking ST +2, reduced it to +1 to keep it in line with mundanity, and forgot to adjust basic ST. Adjust to ST 12 or 14 according to weight class - corrected, thanks.

IQ : I decided to reduce the IQ, as it is sadly inline with the danger of the boxing sport. Yes, I am aware it is not cost-effective. (Also, in my games, Will and Per are independent of IQ so the reasoning would be different.)

Boxing skill : I prefer to put the 2 skills at the same level and save me the headache of deciding which apply when.
Yes, I am aware it is not cost-effective.

[Keampe]

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

Isn't there the issue that sports boxers train using gloves which make it feasible to hit targets that would demolish unprotected hands?

Mostly a myth. The truth is that proper punches will not damage your hand especially if you've trained and toughened them by doing things like punching a heavy bag. An improper strike can hurt your hand, though, and someone who hasn't toughened their hands can break them by punching the head.

In general if you form a proper fist and don't hit the forehead, skull or elbow you won't break you're hand. Otherwise those guys doing Karate or any other martial art with punching would run into the exact same problem.

- Shane

[Keampe]

Originally Posted by WingedKagouti

Someone trained in Boxing (Combat) is not trained to avoid using strikes that would get them disqualified in a sports match. They've trained to do as much damage to their opponent as they can, and several of these types of strikes (and other techniques) have been banned in professional boxing. The reflexes they've built up during training makes it easier for them to accidentially use one of these strikes or techniques.

Thus a boxer using Boxing (Combat) will be at -3 (the default to Boxing (Sport)) during a professional match if they want to be sure to avoid these banned strikes and techniques. If they don't take the penality, they risk disqualification. And there are certainly examples of professional boxers getting disqualified for using banned strikes.

You can run your game how you wish, of course, but RAW disagree with you. In particular pf 153 of MA where is states the Boxing (sport) is appropriate for amateur bouts, exhibitions and purely point-based tournaments. That leaves professional matches using the combat variety. You can also look at the designers notes that I already quoted - the difference is full power and neatness don't count - ie form isn't graded, just results.

But, your table, your rules.
- Shane

[WingedKagouti]

Originally Posted by Keampe

You can run your game how you wish, of course, but RAW disagree with you. In particular pf 153 of MA where is states the Boxing (sport) is appropriate for amateur bouts, exhibitions and purely point-based tournaments. That leaves professional matches using the combat variety. You can also look at the designers notes that I already quoted - the difference is full power and neatness don't count - ie form isn't graded, just results.

Professional matches still adhere to a set of rules about what strikes and strike locations are legal, as well as limiting what kind of grappling can be done. Also, form is Boxing (Art) and not Boxing (Sport). Boxing (Sport) is about striking the opponent while adhering to the rules laid out by the organisation you're under, unless those rules are "Everything is allowed". Just like every other Combat (Sport) skill.

A professional boxer may have a really hard hitting right hook in the ring, but that doesn't mean they're going to be much better in a brawl than a trained karateka. If the skill you're learning isn't usable in a brawl, it isn't an actual Combat skill. It's going to be either the Art or Sport variant.

And yes I consider the "But Boxing uses the Combat skill for matches" bit in MA 100% ********.

In your own words: But, your table, your rules.

[Keampe]

Originally Posted by WingedKagouti

Professional matches still adhere to a set of rules about what strikes and strike locations are legal, as well as limiting what kind of grappling can be done. Also, form is Boxing (Art) and not Boxing (Sport). Boxing (Sport) is about striking the opponent while adhering to the rules laid out by the organisation you're under, unless those rules are "Everything is allowed". Just like every other Combat (Sport) skill.

A professional boxer may have a really hard hitting right hook in the ring, but that doesn't mean they're going to be much better in a brawl than a trained karateka. If the skill you're learning isn't usable in a brawl, it isn't an actual Combat skill. It's going to be either the Art or Sport variant.

And yes I consider the "But Boxing uses the Combat skill for matches" bit in MA 100% ********.

In your own words: But, your table, your rules.

Well, sorry but you're wrong on may levels. You seem to think that what I'm saying is that what you learn in a Boxing Gym is fully formed self defense. It is not.

Lets look at what you learn: Boxing, Boxing (sport) and Games (Boxing). That's it. You learn one combat skill - Boxing. This is not adequate for a GURPS adventurer.

Boxing:
- has trouble dealing with weapons
- has trouble dealing with kicks
- has trouble dealing with grappling

A "Fully Trained Karateka" has more than Karate - they'll have some other grappling skill to round out their options, but even karate alone as written by GURPS has an easier time of it. The first two problems listed aren't a problem and the skill itself allows more options like kicking.

So, yes, the person that just knows Boxing - even the combat skill - will have difficulties in a real fight and that's modeled by the rules. Combine it with Judo and you have something but on it's own its not the best choice.

However, what you learn in the gym is certainly usable in a brawl and won't be any different than what yo do in the ring during a match. Any fight that's unarmed and sticks to punching (most street fights start that way) will see the boxer having no troubles.

You can house rule it if you want, but I'll just do RAW for this one.
- Shane