Wings on Preexisting Limbs?

[cm97878]

When taking the Wings advantage, if these wings would be located on preexisting limbs, a la classic harpies or classic wyverns, would this be discounted at all? As far as I can tell, this is assumed that the wings are extra appendages; while in flight, this would restrict the use of one's arms/forelegs, so it seems as though it would constitute a discount on the wings. Is this the case?

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by cm97878

When taking the Wings advantage, if these wings would be located on preexisting limbs, a la classic harpies or classic wyverns, would this be discounted at all? As far as I can tell, this is assumed that the wings are extra appendages; while in flight, this would restrict the use of one's arms/forelegs, so it seems as though it would constitute a discount on the wings. Is this the case?

What would would you be using them for while flying given that you have no hands?

[finn]

If the race has human level manipulators that they can not use during flying, that sounds like Temporary Disadvantage (No Fine Manipulators) on Flight, at -30%.

In a game I run, there is a intelligent humanoid bird race with wings on their arms (or, dexterous hand on their winds). They have to use their legs when wielding weapons and such while flying, at -4. I give a -10% discount on their Flight. I also allow them to buy a 5 point advantage to negate the -4 penalty, to represent training to use their legs during aerial combat.

Edit:
An image of the race.

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by finn

If the race has human level manipulators that they can not use during flying, that sounds like Temporary Disadvantage (No Fine Manipulators) on Flight, at -30%.
].

Except harpies and wyverns don't have fine manipulators on their arms whether they are flying or not. Instead they have grasping feet.

[RyanW]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

Except harpies and wyverns don't have fine manipulators on their arms whether they are flying or not. Instead they have grasping feet.

A harpy-like creature has two arms, two legs, and two wings. Their arms and legs just happen to be the same limbs. Give them Flight (Winged) [30] and Foot Manipulators [-6].

[Bruno]

Originally Posted by RyanW

A harpy-like creature has two arms, two legs, and two wings. Their arms and legs just happen to be the same limbs. Give them Flight (Winged) [30] and Foot Manipulators [-6].

The above build is good for a parrot-like bird that can use its feet for hands.

cm97878 specifically asks about restricting the use of arm/wings while in flight, not arm/legs while standing on them. One build for that is the Temporary Disadvantage No Fine Manipulators as mentioned elsethread - you can't use your hands at all when flying.

If you have hands on your wings that you can use to hold small one-handed things while flying, and crudely perform one-handed tasks while flying but it's really distracting and hard to do, Pyramid 3/90 has this build:

Flight (Nuisance Effect, Cannot carry out two-handed tasks, -10%; Temporary Disadvantage, Bad Grip 2, -10%; Winged, -25%) [22]

You're at -4 to perform 1 handed tasks, and can't perform 2 handed tasks at all.