[DF Idea] Diabolization

[vierasmarius]

Originally Posted by Dwarf99

[*]Multi-shot

[*]Strafe may be represented by combining Conic Blast and Multishot.

By RAW it's not legal to combine Cone and Rapid Fire. Conic Blast has special rules for higher RoF weapons, turning extra shots into extra width, so I suppose you could combine the Imbuements for a wider area of effect. However, IIRC the Strafe power basically turns the Amazon's bow into a machinegun. For that I'd just use straight Multi-shot, using the Spraying Fire attack option if I want to hit multiple targets.

[Dwarf99]

Originally Posted by vierasmarius

By RAW it's not legal to combine Cone and Rapid Fire. Conic Blast has special rules for higher RoF weapons, turning extra shots into extra width, so I suppose you could combine the Imbuements for a wider area of effect. However, IIRC the Strafe power basically turns the Amazon's bow into a machinegun. For that I'd just use straight Multi-shot, using the Spraying Fire attack option if I want to hit multiple targets.

I considered the illegality of that... I left it in due to the Combination option being optimal for making every shot count. so I'd have to ask if leaving it in is "game breaking" for you before I consider taking it out. I also noticed several minor errors and the fact that I forgot to take all FP costs out because I'm considering leaving the conversion ratio of Diablo MP to GURPS FP(or ER) up to the GM. I'll go back and edit that now.

[Dwarf99]

Originally Posted by CousinX

Bone Armor: Ablative DR [2/level], probably with Regeneration (Fast or Very Fast, DR only, -40%) [25 or 50]. I can't think of a way to "instantly refresh" the armor between battles, like re-casting the spell does in the game.

How about Costs FP (with or without a cosmic modifier depending on GM) replacing Regeneration entirely?

[vierasmarius]

Originally Posted by Dwarf99

How about Costs FP (with or without a cosmic modifier depending on GM) replacing Regeneration entirely?

The problem is that, without Regeneration, there's nothing to replenish the Ablated DR - no matter how much FP you spend on it, you have to wait for it to "heal" on its own. This is an inherent shortcoming of Ablative DR, that there's no good RAW way to handle, for example, a Force Shield that ablates but can repair itself in a few seconds. This would require Very Fast or Extreme Regeneration, making it pointless unless you have a truly massive DR (ie, one in which the discount for Ablative exceeds the extra cost for Regen). The ideal solution is to have a lesser form of Ablative that "heals" more quickly, up to the point where it returns to 100% every second (ie, DR becomes how much damage can be blocked per second, rather than per attack). There are a few proposals for such a DR variant floating around. I think Bruno has one on her campaign site.

[Dwarf99]

Well, I asked about a cosmic modifier for that very reason... each point of DR pays for 15 points toward regeneration... in all fairness, sure it takes 6 DR to pay for 1/second regeneration and 8 to pay for 10/second at +300%, and I understand that's not comforting for some because you're not likely to be within the limitations of Costs X FP. The drawback of course is that you can't get out of the FP cost because it is cosmically linked to the refreshing of the DR.

If you charge +450% for each point of Cosmic DR it's 22.5 CP/DR going toward Regen and you can pay off your regen with 5 and 6 DR respectively and honestly I don't really see anyone buying 1 or 2 levels of DR at that cost at the start of the game to really be game breaking, even if they really aren't throwing out 100 points immediately.

[vierasmarius]

Originally Posted by Dwarf99

Well, I asked about a cosmic modifier for that very reason... each point of DR pays for 15 points toward regeneration... in all fairness, sure it takes 6 DR to pay for 1/second regeneration and 8 to pay for 10/second at +300%, and I understand that's not comforting for some because you're not likely to be within the limitations of Costs X FP. The drawback of course is that you can't get out of the FP cost because it is cosmically linked to the refreshing of the DR.

If you charge +450% for each point of Cosmic DR it's 22.5 CP/DR going toward Regen and you can pay off your regen with 5 and 6 DR respectively and honestly I don't really see anyone buying 1 or 2 levels of DR at that cost at the start of the game to really be game breaking, even if they really aren't throwing out 100 points immediately.

Isn't that still more expensive than just buying non-Ablative, non-Regenerating DR? That's what you need to compare to. You could have DR that always provides full protection, or you could have DR that depletes when attacked but comes back up quickly. One of these is clearly less useful than the other, and its limitations should reflect that.

In other words, I wouldn't bother at all with Cosmic modifiers or the Regeneration stat itself, unless the character has so much DR that it would be a cheaper choice. Instead, if Ablative is -80%, then Ablative (repairs 10% per second) might be -40%, and Ablative (repairs 100% per second) -10%. Those are just numbers I made up for it, but I think it illustrates my point. Regenerating Ablative DR should always have a value between regular DR and full Ablative DR.

[Bruno]

Originally Posted by vierasmarius

Regenerating Ablative DR should always have a value between regular DR and full Ablative DR.

There's also the idea of Ablative DR that can be completely "healed" with an action (and re-spending any Costs FP or whatever).

The extreme least-cost level is Ablative DR that "refreshes" completely each turn - this is effectively a cap on how much your otherwise fairly "normal" DR can absorb each turn. If you have AbDR:Refresh 1s at level 10, you can take 10 incoming damage each turn - in one 10 damage blow, or in 10 one damage blows, or two 5 damage blows, or etc.

If you have real DR 10, you can take infinite 10-damage blows even in the same instant, without taking injury.

Clearly this kind of AbDR isn't as good as regular DR, so it has to cost less than 50 points for 10 levels. I'd argue this is more limiting than just a nuisance effect as well - any kind of RoF attack is going to chew right through it monstrously fast. And of course slower levels of regeneration/refresh are clearly worse, getting down to -80% for 1:1 with HP.

AbDR that can be 100% refreshed by "re-casting" or reactivating it with an action has a more complex relationship - 10 AbDR that takes a concentrate action to refresh will protect me from ten seconds of 1 damage per second and take a concentrate action to refresh at the end of it, but if I'm taking 10 damage a second I'll have to Concentrate every single turn and I'm STILL capped at 10/turn like the "best case" self-healing 100% every second AbDR described above. I'd eyeball it as a half-value version of Requires Concentrate tacked on to whatever limitation value is above, plus full value Takes Extra Time or Immediate Preparation Required if the (re)casting takes more than a second. This might also be the use case for armor that needs to be repaired or otherwise takes extended effort to refresh rather than healing passively.

[Bruno]

Aha!

One of the Regenerative Ablative DR threads

[Dwarf99]

Originally Posted by vierasmarius

Isn't that still more expensive than just buying non-Ablative, non-Regenerating DR?

It is more expensive than buying base DR yes, if that's what you're asking, but since the original build had Regeneration in it I need to compare it to the cost of Base DR plus the cost of Regeneration (at whatever level) to get "Cast=Instant Regen", and to allow Costs FP to do something it doesn't (AFAICT) normally do. Sure it's insanely costly but it 's actually cheaper and you get this little neat dynamic that looks more like a spell or power:

The character

1) pays x FP
2) gets DR
3) gets hit and loses some
4) doesn't get hit for a while so it sits there not regenerating... for a bit
5) when its duration is up the character doesn't maintain it so it goes away.

Then
1) GM describes something scary
2) character pays x FP and instantly gets DR back!

CousinX?

[vierasmarius]

Originally Posted by Dwarf99

It is more expensive than buying base DR yes, if that's what you're asking, but since the original build had Regeneration in it I need to compare it to the cost of Base DR plus the cost of Regeneration

No, you don't. If you could buy non-Ablative DR for a lower price than Ablative + Regen (whether provided by a separate advantage or an enhancement on the DR) you are paying too much. Yes, your build may be cheaper than Ablative + Regen, but it's still more expensive than un-limited DR.

This is why I recommend wrapping up the "regeneration" as part of the Ablative modifier. That way it's always a limitation, even if the DR regenerates 100% per second, or 100% on taking an action and spending 1 FP.