French Elves and other such pastiches

[tantric]

It is common in fantasy settings to borrow from real world cultures and adapt those as the cultural bases for non-humans. I'm currently doing this for my world, using Maori culture as a basis for some unusual Shifter races. I'm curious as to how people feel about his technique, how it can be done well and how it can be done badly. For my part, I like to use real world languages rather than making up fantasy languages so that my players get the benefit of learning something with some real world use, and I feel that pastiche cultures are easier to identify with. I also make sure to offer some sui generis cultures. Though I *love* Empire of the Petal Throne, the cultures are so alien that they are hard to grasp. Thoughts?

[Dammann]

I think that using an existing language is also less work, more often than not.

The danger might be that unless one is pretty familiar with a culture one borrows, there is a risk of making an offensive caricature. I want to make the dwarves in my DF campaign sound like Cajuns, for example, instead of like Scots, but I fear that doing so will be borderline offensive, as well as being difficult to begin with. Cajun is a hard accent to mimic even when your lines are written for you, just ask (ax?) Dennis Quaid. I don't want to be disrespectful to anyone unintentionally (disrespect should be a carefully aimed smart munition).

I suppose if you take from multiple cultures, as well as doing some inventing, you might avoid having 1940s style Japanese orcs. Using Japanese sounding place names with a French pronunciation overlaid and then adjusting the spelling to fit... it all starts to sound like too much work, once again. Maybe I am worried about a non-problem?

I agree that you should always provide something familiar for your players to orient with. An important part of immersiveness is the ability to figure out which way is up, where you are, and so on from the cues in the environment. That is why first person shooters often have pretty sharp lighting and multiple colors of light sources in different parts of the maps, especially when they are symmetrical. You can get away with something pretty novel if you also have something familiar to help players orient.

[Peter Knutsen]

Originally Posted by tantric

It is common in fantasy settings to borrow from real world cultures and adapt those as the cultural bases for non-humans. I'm currently doing this for my world, using Maori culture as a basis for some unusual Shifter races. I'm curious as to how people feel about his technique, how it can be done well and how it can be done badly. For my part, I like to use real world languages rather than making up fantasy languages so that my players get the benefit of learning something with some real world use, and I feel that pastiche cultures are easier to identify with. I also make sure to offer some sui generis cultures. Though I *love* Empire of the Petal Throne, the cultures are so alien that they are hard to grasp. Thoughts?

Real-world past cultures are hard to grasp too. The Western world is so strongly and thoroughly permeated by Abrahamic memes that that which was there before Christianity, e.g. in northern Europe, strikes most Westerners as profoundly alien when they are confronted with it. Or rather, if they ever are confronted with it.

I think that with your technique, it'll be a good idea to be up front about what you're doing, so that your players can use alternative resources to research your world's cultures, instead of being confined only to the material that you provide them with.

[Peter Knutsen]

Originally Posted by Dammann

The danger might be that unless one is pretty familiar with a culture one borrows, there is a risk of making an offensive caricature. I want to make the dwarves in my DF campaign sound like Cajuns, for example, instead of like Scots, but I fear that doing so will be borderline offensive, as well as being difficult to begin with. Cajun is a hard accent to mimic even when your lines are written for you, just ask (ax?) Dennis Quaid. I don't want to be disrespectful to anyone unintentionally (disrespect should be a carefully aimed smart munition).

I'm not really worried about offending Christians, by how they are portrayed in my Ärth setting. I really don't think it is a good idea for players, who have a religion that they take at all seriously, to participate in a historical fantasy RPG campaign.

But the reason I've opted for a historical fantasy setting, using real-world religions, is exactly because of its potential for depth and breadth-of-variety. So if I portray all Christians as being stereotypically same, e.g. as the setting's equivalent to Tolkien's Orcs, then that would heavily defeat my original purpose.

[ericthered]

Originally Posted by Peter Knutsen

I'm not really worried about offending Christians, by how they are portrayed in my Ärth setting. I really don't think it is a good idea for players, who have a religion that they take at all seriously, to participate in a historical fantasy RPG campaign.

Depends on what you are and what's being presented. Some stuff is offensive, some isn't. Now, mockery of a religion is always offensive, but most people should be able to realize there have been members of their belief system that were less than savory. Being able to understand what other people believe and why they believe it is a useful skill.

Just be clear with your lines and why things work the way they do, and remember not the villianize anyone or trivialize their beliefs.

[combatmedic]

Originally Posted by Peter Knutsen

I'm not really worried about offending Christians, by how they are portrayed in my Ärth setting. I really don't think it is a good idea for players, who have a religion that they take at all seriously, to participate in a historical fantasy RPG campaign.

But the reason I've opted for a historical fantasy setting, using real-world religions, is exactly because of its potential for depth and breadth-of-variety. So if I portray all Christians as being stereotypically same, e.g. as the setting's equivalent to Tolkien's Orcs, then that would heavily defeat my original purpose.

It would be offensives if you portrayed all Christians as violent, corrupt, hypocritical, etc.
But you seem to have gone for a realistic, plausible, historically well-informed approach in which all sorts of people call themselves Christian: nominal followers, ‘halfway converted’ pagans, hypocrites, the pious, ordinary folks who try to do the right thing most of the time, power-hungry or greedy opportunists, and holy saints whose lives and deaths inspire the faithful.

I suggest that anyone who would be greatly offended by things like a priest who breaks his vows or a bishop who abuses his office should probably stay far away from the study of history, and not just avoid historical fantasy games.


YMMV

[David Johnston2]

I don't have the skills to do foreign languages or especially accents so it's better not to stay the heck away from that. Generally while I do take inspiration from historical cultures at times I do my best to file the serial numbers off and mix and match. For an example take the Romulans and the Vulcans. They both have weird Roman influences even though their astropolitical role is to be North Korea and Japan and the Vulcans are also inspired by salmon.

[Ed the Coastie]

I generally use existing or historical Earth cultures for races in my fantasy games; however, I try to avoid the stereotypical ones when I can. This has, in the past, given me a collection of dwarven strongholds based loosely on Renaissance-era Italian city-states, an orcish empire patterned after feudal Japan, and Aztec-inspired elves.

[mearrin69]

I do this a little, but mostly in games like Star Wars. It worked for Lucas, right? My Nemoidians are most assuredly WWII Japanese. Twi'leks are French. Toydarians are Italian street vendors. Hutts, of course, are the OG.

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

...and the Vulcans are also inspired by salmon.

I LOL'd.

[Luke Bunyip]

Once played in a game where the orcs were barbarian, but cultured barbarians. The GM did things like adapt the cannonical interest in orchish percussion, and made one of the courts of one of the orcish polities resound with the sound of gamelan music. I think some of the orcs were pirates as well.