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Old 01-11-2013, 10:20 AM   #1
ayjayuk
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Default Munchkin Quest Mat for beginners

Hi everyone

Epic post ahoy… kinda like dragons den this post, but with a +20 monster and curse added. :)

I played my first game of Munchkin Quest last weekend after having played the original munchkin a couple of times before, and was immediately struck by how great a game it is, but how steep the learning (and remembering) curve is.

As with any first run through a game, we spent a lot of time with our heads in the manual trying to make sense of some of the rules, taking our attention away from the lovely tiles.

Most things made sense, or after some healthy debate we could all agree on a system which worked for us.

Since then, after having spent a total of around 3 hours reading these forums, it becomes apparent that in some cases we have completely mis-understood some of the rules, and our friends have also developed some very bad habits from munchkin too. :)

It appears we are not alone, and the bulk of our misunderstandings tally with the questions other people have put on here.

The forum elders are doing an amazing job of answering all of these questions and providing links to already answered questions (use the search folks :P) which got me thinking about a way to kill three birds with one stone; Speeding up the learning process for Munchkin Quest, providing a memory aid for the table and alleviating the workload of the forum elders!

In the real world I design User Interfaces and user experience flows for complex pieces of software, with an aim to making the experience of first time users as trouble free as possible.

It dawned on me I should be able to design an "in-play mat" as an intuitive way to lock down and solve many of the card based misunderstandings that people have. The mat would also feature basic in-play card rules and serve as an anti-cheat device for slightly less trustworthy friends. ;)

I've been trying to collate all of these "in-play cards" rules and helpful hints into one printable mat, onto which you would physically lay your cards out when playing the game.

What do people think to this idea? Good/bad/awful spoils the spirit of Munchkin/finally solves all my worldly problems/I want to marry you/ I want to kill you?

Once it’s all finished I was hoping to provide it free for people to download, to help new and existing players to stay on the righteous track of the Munchkin mat.

I was hoping people could have a quick look at this basic wireframe of the design, and tell me if I’ve got anything wrong, I’m missing anything or have any suggestions on improving it.
(it’s just the mechanics and categories.. nothing fancy and not to scale yet)

http://postimage.org/image/8xamfm46l


UPDATE:
Since creating the original wireframe and writing all of the above. I’ve now gone to the lengths of re jigging it to fit standard paper sizes, and styling it all up nicely for my own printouts and testing. (But I would still love to hear everyone’s feedback and corrections on the content)

Here’s a couple of samples of the final styling, just to whet your munchkinly appetites for how cool it could be if i dont get my wrists slapped:

http://postimage.org/image/7fjpake83/
http://postimage.org/image/tw0l6bovh/

Once I’ve made sure all of the rules are correct, I personally plan to have 6 of them printed onto vinyl or that bar mat material so they can be rolled up into the box with one for each player!

I’d love to hear what everyone thinks, and if anyone from Jackson towers wants to tell me off or pat me on the back for supporting the community and helping others then please feel free. The munchkin logos and stylings could quite easily be removed.. consider this fan art for the time being, the last thing i want is to cause a copyright storm. :)

Last edited by ayjayuk; 01-11-2013 at 10:47 AM.
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Old 01-11-2013, 02:52 PM   #2
Clipper
 
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Default Re: Munchkin Quest Mat for beginners

As someone who has also created some handy Munchkin and Munchkin Quest game aid tools, I do have a few suggestion.
  • If you plan to distribute these for free online, you probably want to add the game aid disclaimer from the SJ Games Online Policy.
  • Your pack isn't only for slotted Items, but also for Items that are not currently usable by your Race or Class.
  • Becoming a Super Munchkin or Half-Breed is actually fairly common, so perhaps you want to have spaces for them. Something like this perhaps.
  • Your mentioning of Big Items only in the Hands section might lead to people missing it out. There are Big Items in every category, so that disclaimer probably should go with the other collated rules.
  • What does your "no duplicates" mean in the Clothing and Shiny sections? The only Treasure card I can find that has duplicates is the Wishing Ring, and you are allowed to have multiple Wishing Rings in play.
  • You can probably combine the Clothing and Shiny sections to one Other Worn Items section, as there are very few things which single out Clothing and Shinies separately. That's just if you need more space, though.
  • The correct game term for the cards you hold in your hand is "hand", with "DECK hand" not being defined anywhere. It's probably best to stick with just "hand".
  • When referring to Items that use the Hand slots, Hands is always capitalised in the rules and on the cards. That's how you determine the difference between your hand of cards and Hands that hold Weapons. You haven't followed that convention.
  • Similarly, Race and Class are always capitalised, as are names of cards like Half-Breed and Super Munchkin.
  • While this is just an aesthetics suggestion, there's no need to capitalise the full word of Big. The first letter should probably do, but the extra emphasis is fine too.
  • Your Pack Items are also carried. Thus, the Pack should have the red border too.
  • When you say that everything else can be dropped or traded, you neglect that they can also be sold for levels.
  • You start the collated rules section saying all cards on the board are Items, but the Race and Class aren't. Also, you might have some Item Enhancers from Looking for Trouble attached to Items, but I admit that might be a little too nit picky.
__________________
My unofficial, but comprehensive Flowcharts: Munchkin: A4 Letter; Munchkin Quest: A4 Letter
Rules Checklist for all Munchkin sets: A4 Letter.

Last edited by Clipper; 01-11-2013 at 03:00 PM.
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Old 01-11-2013, 03:40 PM   #3
ayjayuk
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Default Re: Munchkin Quest Mat for beginners

Hey clipper

Thanks so much for taking the time to put together these suggestions, they've cleared up even more for me!

I think some re-shuffling of the space regarding clothing and shinys will give enough room for the class race/super munchkin section, and your layout idea is great too.

It's a real shame about the hands, Hands, Hand, hand, HAND, HaNd issue,I think SJ games made things much more confusing by not defining a different word altogether (like DECK) to refer to the cards in your hand.

This would have probably cleared up a whole load of confusion for me and hundreds of other players :)

Thanks for the heads up on the disclaimer part too.

I just hope I can re-shuffle and fit all of these suggestions in. For ease of printing I was hoping to make sure that it could be printed out on 2 sheets of A4/letter and I'm getting pushed for space :S

Thanks again for the help, much appreciated.

I'm really looking forward to hearing what others have to say too.
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Old 01-11-2013, 04:12 PM   #4
Clipper
 
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Default Re: Munchkin Quest Mat for beginners

I'm definitely familiar with the lack of space issue. I'm still surprised I managed to get my Munchkin Quest Flowcharts to fit into 3 A4 pages.

And yeah, the hand/Hand thing can be slightly confusing at first, but it is highly consistent, and once you're aware of it, it makes perfect sense. I can't think of any better terminology either, to be honest. Almost all card games refer to the cards you are holding as your hand and the cards you are yet to draw as the deck, and I can't think of any other name for the Hand slot that would be appropriate, so they separated them by capitalisation to remove the potential ambiguity. I am surprised that hand and Hand aren't defined in the Munchkin Quest glossary, though, but I guess there's only so much space there.

On this point, it took me a bit longer to grasp the difference between levels you earn and your Level, another capitalisation convention that both Munchkin and Munchkin Quest share.
__________________
My unofficial, but comprehensive Flowcharts: Munchkin: A4 Letter; Munchkin Quest: A4 Letter
Rules Checklist for all Munchkin sets: A4 Letter.
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Old 01-11-2013, 09:10 PM   #5
Andrew Hackard
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Default Re: Munchkin Quest Mat for beginners

BTW, it'd be really nice for people creating game aids to create 8.5" x 11" sizes, too. Our printer doesn't like A4. Stupid non-metric countries. Well, country.
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Old 01-12-2013, 12:29 AM   #6
Clipper
 
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Default Re: Munchkin Quest Mat for beginners

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Hackard View Post
BTW, it'd be really nice for people creating game aids to create 8.5" x 11" sizes, too. Our printer doesn't like A4. Stupid non-metric countries. Well, country.
I have tried at one stage to make the Flowcharts fit onto Letter... it didn't work very well, unfortunately. Well, apart from just scaling it down so you had a lot of extra room on the edges.

However, I really should do that for the Checklist. Thanks for the suggestion, Andrew, I was wondering what I could do to waste some time tonight...

Edit: And I've done it for the Checklist... Then I gave the card game Flowcharts a go too, and succeeded. I might attempt to modify the Quest Flowcharts too, but they are much harder for the moment. Yay for new signature...

And I look forward to seeing the next update to your mats ayjayuk
__________________
My unofficial, but comprehensive Flowcharts: Munchkin: A4 Letter; Munchkin Quest: A4 Letter
Rules Checklist for all Munchkin sets: A4 Letter.

Last edited by Clipper; 01-12-2013 at 02:41 AM.
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Old 01-13-2013, 05:24 PM   #7
ayjayuk
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Default Re: Munchkin Quest Mat for beginners

Firstly I've downloaded and printed clippers MQ flow charts and I'm VERY impressed, some long hours have gone into those, an excellent game aid, and really useful resource. In fact I think there should be a Game Aids thread on the main MQ forum for those and other great aids.

Talking of great game aids.....Its time for a Mat update... :P

After spending far too long trying to shuffle stuff around to fit those crazy US letter sizes, I've finally got it! :)

Thanks for all the feedback so far, Once I'm sure I've got everything correct (Any more feedback is much appreciated) I will issue some "home printable" versions with each mat split over either 2 x A4 sheets or 2 x US Letter sheets at a full 300DPI and the correct scale to physically fit cards into each gap.

The latest draft version is available from the link below, this example fits 2 X US letter sheets (and is a low resolution example):

http://i.imgur.com/Ayedw.jpg


Would love to hear peoples opinions/suggestions, especially if any of the rules are still not correct.

Looking forward to getting some nice 300DPI ones printed onto vinyl asap :)
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Old 01-13-2013, 05:41 PM   #8
Clipper
 
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Default Re: Munchkin Quest Mat for beginners

Looks great! I really like what you did with the L-shaped Item section. I like to have the Half-Breed and Super Munchkin cards sitting above and behind my other cards so I can see their title, but the way you have it works fine too.

You still have the problem that your sheet says the Races and Classes can be traded. Perhaps say "All Items on this mat...", rather than "All cards on this mat..."

The pack still doesn't mention putting your extra slotted Items into it, although I notice you don't have much space left there.

I'd also consider in the Unlimited section that you change "ANY other cards go into your hand" to "ANY other cards stay in your hand" so people don't think they are forced to put Items into play.

And thank you very much for the compliments on the Flowcharts. It is always great to get feedback.
__________________
My unofficial, but comprehensive Flowcharts: Munchkin: A4 Letter; Munchkin Quest: A4 Letter
Rules Checklist for all Munchkin sets: A4 Letter.
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Old 01-14-2013, 02:04 AM   #9
ayjayuk
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Default Re: Munchkin Quest Mat for beginners

Thanks again Clipper for the feedback.

Those last few amends are done now too.

The only reason I've put the super munchkin/ half breed cards up the opposite way is to maintain the alignment of all the cards and titles on the bottom row (I'm fussy like that :))

Ill leave this link up here for a few days in the hope I might get a few more people chipping in ideas/amends.
(Again this is a low Res 2x US letter version, I will have 300dpi UK and US versions)

http://s7.postimage.org/6jvo6bcbf/USDraft_V02.jpg

It would be great if one of the Admins could cast their eyes over it too.

Thanks All
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Old 01-14-2013, 07:40 AM   #10
dimitrisasp
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Greece
Default Re: Munchkin Quest Mat for beginners

The Mat is very good indeed! I can't wait for the final result! Cheers!
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