Infomorphs, Complexity, Altered Time Rate

[vicky_molokh]

Greetings, all!

My GM asked me about Infomorphs using a system of at least one Complexity higher, in a totally virtual environment (i.e. when the interaction with the outside world is not an issue), for the purposes of obtaining Enhanced Time Sense and, more importantly, Altered Time Rate. I pointed him towards the only barely official answer.

Now, both of us are okay with NOT having this ability. But the question is, what is the realistic reason for such inability, without references to soul mysticism or quantum mechanics misunderstanding/myths or references to interaction with the 'real world' (which is absent in an environment that is totally part of a mainframe or equivalent).

Thanks in advance!

[Phil Masters]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

Now, both of us are okay with NOT having this ability. But the question is, what is the realistic reason for such inability, without references to soul mysticism or quantum mechanics misunderstanding/myths or references to interaction with the 'real world' (which is absent in an environment that is totally part of a mainframe or equivalent).

Honestly? Mostly game convenience.

If you can run AIs and mind emulations on computers of arbitrary size, then you can in principle (and by the simplified, abstracted GURPS/TS computer rules) certainly run them in simulated environments at arbitrarily increased (or decreased) speeds. However, to stop the various abuses that people will quickly start dreaming up given this (many of them half-baked and implausible but boring to argue down), we assume that minds interacting with the real world have to ... interact with the real world. So infomorphs in TS can't run at significantly increased speeds for any useful purpose.

(Well, it's possible that high-complexity, high-IQ AIs are actually just designed to exploit bigger, faster hardware by diligently thinking more. But that just gets them a bit more GURPS IQ.)

It's actually hard to come up with a logical reason why an infomorph running in a purely virtual environment on a big and fast enough computer shouldn't be able to run faster than in reality, to be honest. But the uses for that may be limited. Research into pure mathematics, maybe, but anything in the way of experimental science or engineering should involve interaction with reality. Otherwise, your results will just embody the assumptions of the virtual environment. GIGO follows.

Yeah, we're assuming perfect brain emulations but unreliable digital physics models here. Oh well. Better that than boring discussions in which the word "singularity" features all too often.

It's also possible that you could give a ghost program Enhanced Time Sense by running it on bigger, faster hardware with some care in the interfaces and stuff, I guess. But then, you can give a ghost program Enhanced Time Sense by tweaking its neural model to emulate installation of a brain booster nanosymbiont, so why spend the money?

[vicky_molokh]

Actually, the idea of using the digital equivalents of brain-enhancing drugs is another thing to consider. They feel like a somewhat cheap trick, but totally logical.

[Phil Masters]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

Actually, the idea of using the digital equivalents of brain-enhancing drugs is another thing to consider. They feel like a somewhat cheap trick, but totally logical.

As someone observed when this came up previously, they're almost certainly designed using extensive digital modelling, so they software should be well documented.

For convenience, I'd assume that the cost of the actual nano is largely licensing fees, so use of the licensed software for similar purposes should attract much the same prices.

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by Phil Masters

As someone observed when this came up previously, they're almost certainly designed using extensive digital modelling, so they software should be well documented.

For convenience, I'd assume that the cost of the actual nano is largely licensing fees, so use of the licensed software for similar purposes should attract much the same prices.

And there are no generics? No expired patents that ended up in the public domain? No free or nearly free ones made by high-skilled enthusiasts (as opposed to cheap knockoffs done by 'street' capitalists)?

Finally, what about the ones with a lifetime license, kinda like normal digital stuff (e.g. if I bought Changing Times, I can keep using it until I die, and then let someone inherit it)?

[Flyndaran]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

Actually, the idea of using the digital equivalents of brain-enhancing drugs is another thing to consider. They feel like a somewhat cheap trick, but totally logical.

There should be a lot of things you can do to a digital mind that you couldn't with a living one.
By R.A.W. digital neurons don't die or "age", so why not just tell them to not do X as well.
You could also segregate the digital drug to only the wanted sections removing most side effects. You need extra serotonin here, but definitely not here is the story of my life.

[Phil Masters]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

And there are no generics? No expired patents that ended up in the public domain? No free or nearly free ones made by high-skilled enthusiasts (as opposed to cheap knockoffs done by 'street' capitalists)?

I guess that I'd assume by default that nanosymbionts and biotech treatments are new enough, or the intellectual property is controlled enough, or the manufacturing costs are high enough, that cheap generic knock-offs of actual physical nanomods aren't much of an option; you pay full price for this stuff or you don't get it. Hence, the game doesn't need to worry about trading price for reliability or whatever.

(The other simple concern there would be that these are treatments that modify your brain function or other things almost as important. Persuading somebody to try versions of obscure provenance or dubious legality requires a large supply of dumb or desperate purchasers.)

Now, for software mods that are basically just digital models of the same things: new or tightly-controlled designs can still have high prices, thanks to the power of monopoly. Minimal manufacturing costs will help push prices of more generic products down, though, so much may depend how much of the cost of a nanosymbiont is the actual physical production cost, and how much comes from license fees.

Expired patents strike me as unlikely for various reasons. As for shareware designs that have presumably never been instantiated in physical form - well, the two questions there are (a) Are nanosymbiont design and brain model modification simple enough that amateur hobbyists can pull them off in their bedrooms out of hours? and (b) If you were a ghost infomorph, would you let some unlicensed amateur fiddle with your personality model?

(Yeah, I'm aware that some people's answer to (b) will likely be "Yes please!". I tend to feel that there's a Darwinian effect going to cut in there, combined with a few complicated court cases over whether the modified and now imploding ghost personality should be scratched and a pre-modification copy restored.)