Altered Time Rate and Strength (ST)

[B9anders]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

Even if you have ATR and can use it all the time, this doesn't mean you will. For one, it makes communication with teammates next to impossible normally. It also (and I consider this a Murphy) explicitly forbid Feints. It might disallow interacting with some other stuff too, depending on which of the two ATR incarnations the character has.

According to the description in Basic, I wouldn't read that as turning ATR off though. It is simply deliberately slowing yourself down while in ATR.

And yes, this is an important distinction. If ATR was switchable by default, it would require a ready maneuvre to active and de-activate and it doesn't.

I don't think what you present here is reason enough to allow 'only when in ATR' as a limitation when your ATR is always on.

[munin]

Originally Posted by Tyneras

On a side note, would Aura be a good enhancement for ATR to make it affect your weapons and gear? This would allow you to fire the full RoF of a gun each perceived second.

Extending your ATR to your equipment is a +0% modifier (Kromm: Warps Time, +0%). It helps you use your gear more quickly, but also speeds up poisons and other cyclic attacks, frequency-shifts communications gear, and causes beneficial effects to wear off more quickly. If you can selectively choose which stuff works at your speed and which does not, add Selective Effect, +20%. To make your ATR choose for itself (so you don't need to take Ready maneuvers to turn the effect on and off for specific gear), also add Reflexive, +40%.

It won't make your weapons do more damage though without extra abilities, anymore than regular ATR does. (the velocity downshifts to normal when it leaves your field perhaps, unless you buy Striking ST, et al.)

Originally Posted by B9anders

According to the description in Basic, I wouldn't read that as turning ATR off though. It is simply deliberately slowing yourself down while in ATR.

I agree. Not using your ATR maneuvers is like not using your Move. It doesn't mean you've switched off the ability to move, you're just not going at full speed.

[Tyneras]

Originally Posted by munin

Extending your ATR to your equipment is a +0% modifier (Kromm: Warps Time, +0%). It helps you use your gear more quickly, but also speeds up poisons and other cyclic attacks, frequency-shifts communications gear, and causes beneficial effects to wear off more quickly. If you can selectively choose which stuff works at your speed and which does not, add Selective Effect, +20%. To make your ATR choose for itself (so you don't need to take Ready maneuvers to turn the effect on and off for specific gear), also add Reflexive, +40%.

Thanks! I wonder why that thread didn't turn up during my initial search.

[Gold & Appel Inc]

Originally Posted by B9anders

It is a fine justification for allowing extra striking ST and such to the character, but how often do you come up against actual ATR opponents for this limitation to actually be worth anything?

Depends on the setting... one of my Shadowrun one-shots had as its climax a battle between three PCs with ATR and three NPCs (on a team of five, one of whom never showed himself) with ATR, so it would've applied to 3/4 of their meaningful opposition (both teams were also killing the facility's mooks) in that scenario.

[Danukian]

Originally Posted by B9anders

I don't think that's justified.

It is a fine justification for allowing extra striking ST and such to the character, but how often do you come up against actual ATR opponents for this limitation to actually be worth anything?

At best a -5% limitation. And I'd probably just say it's not a limitation at all, ATR simply allows you to buy extra striking ST.

If you can't use your ATR all the time, "only while in ATR, -10%" would be legitimate though.

I think 10% is fair, it's blocked by ATR foes and anythink that stops ATR - like weird time bubbles and such, and balanced against other modifiers like CHI or Electrical for Cyberware.

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by Tyneras

This is about a character with Altered Time Rate and their perceived strength vs someone without it.

Here is my logic: Striking ST is basically about the kinetic energy of your fist, and KE = 1/2mv^2, and v is distance/time. If you have ATR 1, you do everything in half the time, which doubles the KE of your fist.

.

However it's worth noting that the upper limit of the force a punch can deliver is limited by the hand's ability to take damage.

[vitruvian]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

However it's worth noting that the upper limit of the force a punch can deliver is limited by the hand's ability to take damage.

Only if hitting DR, in GURPS... ;-)

[Anthony]

Realistically, someone with human mass with ATR will need a ST of around 20. You might be able to get away with a bit lower raw ST and some striking ST, but in the end, performing an action in half the time requires 4x the force.

However, games, comics, and novels routinely ignore the connection between strength and speed.

[aesir23]

Originally Posted by Anthony

Realistically, someone with human mass with ATR will need a ST of around 20. You might be able to get away with a bit lower raw ST and some striking ST, but in the end, performing an action in half the time requires 4x the force.

This rather misses the point, they're only moving at 2x the speed from the perspective of an outside observer.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by aesir23

This rather misses the point, they're only moving at 2x the speed from the perspective of an outside observer.

Nothing in the ATR advantage says that it creates a time distortion field. It just lets you act twice as often.