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Old 12-05-2008, 01:20 PM   #31
Tectuctitlay
 
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Default Re: Need help for Fallout style game

Thank god for Wikipedia, huh? Here's some info on the 3 mile island meltdown http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Mile_Island_accident , and here's all the nuclear power plants in the country http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_nuclear_reactors
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Old 12-05-2008, 01:41 PM   #32
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Default Re: Need help for Fallout style game

There are many buildings in USSR that were built in 50s and never got any repair, and people still live in'em.
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Old 12-05-2008, 03:12 PM   #33
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Default Re: Need help for Fallout style game

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frost
Almost certainly not, without maintinence modern single family housing is not going to last more than a few decades at most.
True. Each part will require replacement within a certain timeframe. Each part can be just years or measured in decades between replacement times based on the materials, workmanship and environment.
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Old 12-05-2008, 03:15 PM   #34
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Default Re: Need help for Fallout style game

A great resource on how long the works of man will last without us around to take care of them is "The World Without Us," a book by Alan Weisman.

Weisman looks at places like the no-man's land in Cyprus and the Korean DMZ where nobody has interfered for decades and shows that the changes can be startling and quick. He talks with engineers who say that New York's skyscrapers would tumble quickly once the pumps that keep water out of their foundations fail. But the Brooklyn Bridge will last a very long time because it was totally overengineered by people who didn't have computer aided design to help them.

And he takes on the question of nuclear plants left to their own devices, though I'm struggling right now to remember just how long his experts told him they would burn . . .
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Old 12-05-2008, 03:28 PM   #35
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Default Re: Need help for Fallout style game

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Originally Posted by Caruso
And he takes on the question of nuclear plants left to their own devices, though I'm struggling right now to remember just how long his experts told him they would burn . . .
So New York will be turned into a pile of rubbish? And what will hapen with nuclear plants around it? Will they irradiate the ground and water in NYC?
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Old 12-05-2008, 03:30 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by Death Knight of Doom
And what will hapen with nuclear plants around it? Will they irradiate the ground and water in NYC?
They will if your setting requires it!
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Old 12-05-2008, 03:31 PM   #37
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Default Re: Need help for Fallout style game

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Colonel
High end stainless steel tools ain't going anywhere ... cheap junk will vanish after a few years in the damp.
True, of course there is still the issue of wear if it is in regular use but that is another issue entirely.

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Originally Posted by The Colonel
It's hard to say, since modern ammo hasn't been around all that long, but if they're deliberately cached in dry oil you might might expect rounds to last centuries. Leave them where damp air can get at them and the primers will fail in a year or so.
I don't know if it is still the case, but what information I could find sugested that some nitro powders, admittedly the examples I found were older forms, tended to break down over time. Many of the breakdown products would be acidic and may well weaken or errode casings even in dry environments. Certainly this was my justification for reduced reliability and general scarcity.
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Old 12-05-2008, 05:18 PM   #38
Kyle Aaron
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Default Re: Need help for Fallout style game

Quote:
Originally Posted by laserdog
how well modern goods would have survived?
Many plastics exposed to sunlight become brittle. Kept in the dark, they survive remarkably well.

Iron and the like will corrode, but interestingly stainless steel will last. Those pots and mixing bowls could be used by Stone Age descendants :)

Is a modern fireman's axe still going to be in one piece after 200 years?

If kept dry in a cupboard somewhere, yes. If lying around in the street, no.

What about most modern houses with no maintenance?

They'll fall apart, especially the McMansions. Fibroboard and the like just don't last. The big old civic buildings from 1900 and before, all stone and brick, they'll be intact - though there'll be lots of holes in the roof letting rain through, and the interiors will be very messy.

How long is ammo good for?

Modern ammunition can last up to a century if stored in low (20-40%) humidity, and cool (50-70F) temperature. Excessive cold doesn't do anything in itself, but with it goes being wet, usually, and that ruins the stuff, makes the firing a dud, click. Excessive heat makes the stuff unstable, so it might go kaboom when you pop it up the spout, which could be embarassing.

If the stuff was stored by someone paranoid about firearms safety, in a locked box in a locked cabinet separately from the firearms, in a dark part of the house, that'll help it survive. If it was stored by the average doofus, loose in a box in the kitchen or something, and the house abandoned due to the apocalyptic event, then I wouldn't touch the stuff after a couple of years.

Most Western police departments have their guys swap their carried ammunition every 6-12 months, and discard the old stuff.

Etc, etc. I never really found a good resource on any of that, so ended up just squinting really hard and making something up.

That's the way to do it. Realistically, 200 years after the collapse of civilisation, nobody is going to have or make all the brass and primers and powder. It's going to be muskets at best, and spears and swords for the rest. But if we're talking about supermutants and Radaway, then we don't care about being realistic, so we may as well have miniguns carried around, too!

I've always said, just decide what you want in your game world, what would be cool and fun, and go with that. When the players say, "but how...?" reply, "An interesting question. How will your characters go about finding that out?"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Caruso
And he takes on the question of nuclear plants left to their own devices, though I'm struggling right now to remember just how long his experts told him they would burn . . .
6-18 months. In most reactors, the rods are changed every 12-18 months. They don't shut the whole thing down and change them all, usually, they just change a few every month, so the thing has always got a mix of old and new in it. They change them because products build up which damp down the reaction. So depending on the size and type, you're looking at 6-18 months for the reactions to fizzle down.

Of course before then some pump will likely fail, or pipe corrode and leak. They're big and complex machines and require quite a lot of maintenance. Most have a lot of safeties on them, so they won't hit 18 months and then vomit radiosotopes everywhere. But over the decades the concrete will develop cracks and the steel corrode, and stuff will leak out. That's where Fallout puts its ghouls, who apparently thrive on the rads like sunflowers do on sunshine :)

I second others' recommendation for World Without People, which was both a book and a History Channel movie. It's a bit "GEE WHIZ LOOKEE THERE at that big building falling down!" but is still quite interesting.
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Old 12-05-2008, 05:23 PM   #39
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Quote:
So New York will be turned into a pile of rubbish?
Probably not, since the only reactor rear NYC was decomissioned in 1989.
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Old 12-06-2008, 03:04 AM   #40
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Default Re: Need help for Fallout style game

From what I see here the general idea is that if the GM wants something to have survived, it would. Just about anything can if propely stored/maintained. This was my take in my fallout game. If I said there was something there then there was for some reason that the players don't need/ can't find out.
The stumbling block of my Fallout game was the drugs. Has anyone done any writing on them. How would Jet effect a GURPS char? Or Psycho? And I am interrested in everything else people have writen on GURPS Fallout. I found this: http://gurps.fallout.free.fr/ but it puts me of for some reason. And I could not find any mention of the drugs. Just looked again and found the drugs. So the above site seems to be rather complete execpt for a printable version. There are some pointless pictures there that I would like to remove before printing anything. Other that that seems to be ok.
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