Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > GURPS

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-27-2017, 11:36 AM   #11
chandley
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week (#45): Duplication

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony View Post
Duplicates which die and stay dead are extremely rare in fiction, and effect that result in permanent character point loss but not 'create a new character' tend to be problematic in games.
But completely disposable duplicates (as Constructs are) are not super common. What kind of limitation would it be on Unkillable 2 to be something like: "you" come back as long as any copy of you is still alive.

Couple that with "No Unkillable 1", and might be cheaper in the aggregate than Construct on all your duplicates...

"Needs Living Duplicate" maybe. -20%? -30%? Better to adjust Construct in some way?
__________________
My GURPS stuff
chandley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2017, 12:07 PM   #12
Anthony
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week (#45): Duplication

Quote:
Originally Posted by chandley View Post
But completely disposable duplicates (as Constructs are) are not super common. What kind of limitation would it be on Unkillable 2 to be something like: "you" come back as long as any copy of you is still alive.
Duplication isn't very common in general, but I probably wouldn't do more than add some additional ritual requirements to Construct, and maybe adding sympathetic injury back.
__________________
My GURPS site and Blog.
Anthony is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2017, 02:31 PM   #13
DeathDaisy
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Sweden
Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week (#45): Duplication

A friend recently created a character with two duplicates as his gimmick. Both died in the same fight three sessions in and now must either retire the character or spend 50 character points on getting them back
DeathDaisy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2017, 08:07 PM   #14
ericthered
Hero of Democracy
 
ericthered's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: far from the ocean
Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week (#45): Duplication

The unkillable thing is interesting: I hadn't thought of it that way. Its a good way to ensure you have no "original". Though I find the most common number of dupes is one.

Duplicates in general aren't common in fiction. I think I most often use duplicate for things that aren't really duplicates, but the ability to treat a location as though you were present. One example is an eye that floats around and allows a wizard to look and cast through it. (inspired by a video game).

You can do it with powers through high range and accessibility limitations, but its very expensive for the mediocre return you get. If you build it as a dupe, you get a reasonable price for the ability, and you don't have to recalculate everything every time you want to add another casting point or increase your abilities.
__________________
Worlds Beyond Earth -- my blog
ericthered is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2017, 10:15 PM   #15
ErhnamDJ
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: OK
Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week (#45): Duplication

Duplication, or at least the Construct modifier, is the worst priced trait, not just in GURPS, but in any game ever.

I've used it before with Construct. I made a speedster who could split into two. The duplicate would then run into things at a good fraction of the speed of light. And she could just keep doing it over and over. Duplicate torpedoes.

Being able to summon disposable copies of yourself is ridiculously powerful, yet it costs a mere pittance in GURPS. How much it costs should be based on your point total. It shouldn't be a flat price. It should cost more for a thousand-point super than a hundred-point psi.

GURPS is just really bad at pricing things that vary in power with your character point total like this. Allies is another example with the same problem.
__________________
"For the rays, to speak properly, are not colored. In them there is nothing else than a certain power and disposition to stir up a sensation of this or that color." —Isaac Newton, Optics

My blog.
ErhnamDJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2017, 01:14 PM   #16
chandley
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week (#45): Duplication

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony View Post
Duplication isn't very common in general, but I probably wouldn't do more than add some additional ritual requirements to Construct, and maybe adding sympathetic injury back.
Granted, not common. I guess the scenario I most readily envision is an ooze that can split into multiple mini-oozes. That's shared resources but is NOT construct. Given the usual course of feeding and growing, any of the resultant mini-oozes can become a big ooze. And the original ooze (pick one of them) can grow/heal back enough HP to make use of its duplication power even if the other mini-oozes are killed. And it all takes rather more effort than even 10 FP represents.

As an enhancement to Duplication, stuff like that takes several different kinds of enhancement to be clean. Might be worth it if Unkillable or similar is too clunky though.

In answer to the original post, I have used Duplication, often to high values. I especially liked a build that had duplication and compartmentalized mind as A/As of each other: Spin off threads of consciousness into their own bodies when needed, or stack up in one body to think massively parallel with instant comms.
__________________
My GURPS stuff
chandley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2017, 01:30 PM   #17
naloth
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week (#45): Duplication

Quote:
Originally Posted by ErhnamDJ View Post
Duplication, or at least the Construct modifier, is the worst priced trait, not just in GURPS, but in any game ever.
That seems like quite an exaggeration. We all have modifiers we would (and often do) reprice. Besides, you can just make it a taboo trait for your game. As stated elsewhere, it can end up being more expensive than Unkillable for essentially the same thing.

Quote:
I've used it before with Construct. I made a speedster who could split into two. The duplicate would then run into things at a good fraction of the speed of light. And she could just keep doing it over and over. Duplicate torpedoes.
Generally there are so many ways to do similar high damage, lethal attacks that I prefer to run games where the neither the characters nor the players have reasons (social, legal, moral) not to engage in this sort of behavior.

Quote:
Being able to summon disposable copies of yourself is ridiculously powerful, yet it costs a mere pittance in GURPS. How much it costs should be based on your point total. It shouldn't be a flat price. It should cost more for a thousand-point super than a hundred-point psi.
Nah, I have to disagree. Pricing things on based on character total is somewhat of a mess in general and I don't see any reason to single this advantage/enhancement out from others. Mind control, for example, gives you a much better pool for kamikaze troops and it's a fixed cost regardless if you're controlling a mook or Superman.

Quote:
GURPS is just really bad at pricing things that vary in power with your character point total like this. Allies is another example with the same problem.
Allies got *fixed* from the mess that it was in 3e. Many of us have no desire to go back to how it was.

I will say that GURPS has a problem with scaling, though. High ST often diminish in worth (you have enough or not) as you buy more as do defensive abilities.
naloth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2017, 02:52 PM   #18
Toptomcat
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week (#45): Duplication

Quote:
Originally Posted by chandley View Post
But completely disposable duplicates (as Constructs are) are not super common.
I'm having difficulty thinking of fictional Duplicates that aren't disposable.
Toptomcat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2017, 02:55 PM   #19
sir_pudding
Wielder of Smart Pants
 
sir_pudding's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ventura CA
Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week (#45): Duplication

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toptomcat View Post
I'm having difficulty thinking of fictional Duplicates that aren't disposable.
When John Crichton was twinned for an entire season?
sir_pudding is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2017, 03:05 PM   #20
naloth
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week (#45): Duplication

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toptomcat View Post
I'm having difficulty thinking of fictional Duplicates that aren't disposable.
From the either dupe's view, the other is usually disposable, sure ;)

From the player's point of view, you wouldn't want to throw away a dupe that you can't replace.

Riker was also permanently duplicated (younger version) on TNG.
naloth is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
advantage, advantage of the week, duplication, fugue, week, [basic]

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:09 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.