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Old 04-02-2017, 05:15 AM   #31
Icelander
 
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Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week (#38): Dark Vision, Night Vision

Technological devices are noted as granting Night Vision x, up to Night Vision 9 for the newest Gen III devices. I'm not sure if I've seen any explicit note that this Night Vision and the unmodified Advantage are identical.

In particular, technological Night Vision allows one to see IR illuminators and within the effective range of such an illuminator, darkness penalties are reduced by a further 2.

Should Night Vision bought as an Advantage allow this? Or would that require a a Perk or an Enhancement to the Advantage? If an Enhancement, what would the value be?

Personally, I'd be inclined toward making it a Perk, by analogy from other Perks in Enhanced Senses. I don't think it ought to be more expensive to add the capability to spot IR illuminators (and IR lasers) to Dark Vision than Night Vision.
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Old 04-02-2017, 06:50 AM   #32
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Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week (#38): Dark Vision, Night Vision

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Originally Posted by Icelander View Post
Should Night Vision bought as an Advantage allow this? Or would that require a a Perk or an Enhancement to the Advantage? If an Enhancement, what would the value be?
Realistic NVGs cause Color Blindness, No Depth Perception and No Peripheral Vision (Tactical Shooting, p19). All of these are temporary, of course. The infra-red vision they give isn't as good as Infravision, maybe a -30% on that.

So they're Night Vision 9, for a base [9], plus a limited Infravision worth [7] Technological -10%, Temporary Disadvantages worth [-10]+[-15]+[-15]%, total cost [8] or so. The Green Eyes perk (Tactical Shooting, p38) takes off 20% of the limitations, making NVGs worth about [11].

The raw advantage has none of those problems noted, although I'd find it hard to object if a GM ruled that it gave No Color Vision. I reckon you need to buy Infravision, likely with limitations, to get the IR illuminators effect.
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Old 04-02-2017, 07:07 AM   #33
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Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week (#38): Dark Vision, Night Vision

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Realistic NVGs cause Color Blindness, No Depth Perception and No Peripheral Vision (Tactical Shooting, p19). All of these are temporary, of course. The infra-red vision they give isn't as good as Infravision, maybe a -30% on that.

So they're Night Vision 9, for a base [9], plus a limited Infravision worth [7] Technological -10%, Temporary Disadvantages worth [-10]+[-15]+[-15]%, total cost [8] or so. The Green Eyes perk (Tactical Shooting, p38) takes off 20% of the limitations, making NVGs worth about [11].

The raw advantage has none of those problems noted, although I'd find it hard to object if a GM ruled that it gave No Color Vision. I reckon you need to buy Infravision, likely with limitations, to get the IR illuminators effect.
While Image-Intensifying Night Sights do allow some vision in the IR spectrum, they have never been noted as granting Infravision in GURPS terms.

None of the game benefits of Infravision accrue to someone using light amplification or starlight scopes. Notably, they do not work at all in total darkness, there is no bonus to spot warm targets, there is no bonus to Tracking, etc.

The way NVGs have always been written up in GURPS, only thermal-imaging sights give what GURPS calls Infravision (even then, it's a limited version).

It seems pretty clunky to have to buy limited Infravision to get something that has none of the game mechanical benefits that Infravision grants.

As an example of this being typical Perk fare, being able to hear lower or higher sounds than normal for humans is treated as Perks in Enhanced Senses. There are Advantages that do the same thing and also have more concrete game effects, but just the ability to hear a slightly wider register is a Perk. It allows you to use dog whistles as signalling devices, etc. It seems to me that this is pretty close to what the ability to see IR lasers and illuminators is.

Though I do grant that the ability to get an effective +2 bonus to Night Vision within the range of IR illuminators is useful, but that's simply being able to use certain equipment without having another gadget at hand, which seems typical for an Accessory Perk.
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Old 04-02-2017, 08:52 AM   #34
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Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week (#38): Dark Vision, Night Vision

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While Image-Intensifying Night Sights do allow some vision in the IR spectrum, they have never been noted as granting Infravision in GURPS terms.
Err, yes. I seem to have got confused between the benefits of Green Eyes and Infravision. Let's refigure that.

NVGs are Night Vision x, for a base [x], Technological -10%, Temporary Disadvantages worth [-10]+[-15]+[-15]%, total cost [x/2]. The Green Eyes perk (Tactical Shooting, p38) takes off 20% of the limitations, making NVGs worth about [7x/10].

Yes, a perk for adding the limited IR capabilities of NVGs to Night Vision seems utterly reasonable.
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Old 04-02-2017, 11:28 AM   #35
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Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week (#38): Dark Vision, Night Vision

It's not a pure advantage either as super intense near IR flares would blind your sensors and probably hurt your eyes as well.
I vote for perk. It's nice and gives a +2 bonus in very specific circumstances along with a vector for "blindness".
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Old 04-02-2017, 11:48 AM   #36
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Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week (#38): Dark Vision, Night Vision

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Hyperspectral vision seems to be better than darkvision (grants a +3 bonus) for the same point cost. What does darkvision allow that hyperspectral vision does not?
The ability to see in a place where nothing is emitting any kind of light. E.g., you're in a cave half a mile belowground, fighting golems* that are the same temperature as the background rock.



*Demons, animate fungi...
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Old 04-02-2017, 11:54 AM   #37
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Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week (#38): Dark Vision, Night Vision

Realistically, everything animate and obeying even the most basic of thermodynamics will produce some waste heat.
Obviously, magical threats don't have to, but a setting allowing hyperspectral vision and said monsters would make for an odd campaign, thematically.
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Old 04-02-2017, 12:10 PM   #38
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Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week (#38): Dark Vision, Night Vision

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Realistically, everything animate and obeying even the most basic of thermodynamics will produce some waste heat.
However, inanimate objects normally have a temperature higher than zero kelvin and thus emit some electromagnetic radiation, too. And a lot of organisms have metabolic activity that produces just enough heat to keep them in thermal equilibrium with their surroundings. Mammals and birds spend a huge amount of energy keeping their body temperature high to support fast chemical reactions; organisms that don't do this will fade into the background.
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Old 04-02-2017, 12:28 PM   #39
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Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week (#38): Dark Vision, Night Vision

Reptiles are faint in modern low res mediocre thermal vision, but they're still detectable, from what I've seen of such videos.
Gurps Thermal vision is as discerning as base line vision, so they're much better than anything we have now.
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Old 04-02-2017, 12:49 PM   #40
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Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week (#38): Dark Vision, Night Vision

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Reptiles are faint in modern low res mediocre thermal vision, but they're still detectable, from what I've seen of such videos.
Gurps Thermal vision is as discerning as base line vision, so they're much better than anything we have now.
If you mean "Infravision," I don't recommend using it if you're trying for a scientifically or technologically accurate model of how such things work. The GURPS notion of Infravision, like those in many other games, lumps all wavelengths of "infrared" together and gives them properties that derive partly from thermal infrared and partly from near infrared. I had some trouble sorting them out in Enhanced Senses.

Thermal infrared is what things like bolometers detect. It doesn't allow good image resolution; on the other hand, animals and indeed common inanimate objects emit in that band, so you can see them even without a light source. Near infrared, in contrast, allows much better resolution, and I believe it's what things like "night vision" systems detect—but there's almost none of it being emitted after the sun sets; you start getting a dull glow at 350°F. I believe that a common configuration is to have a light source whose visible light output is block, so that it emits NIR, which is then reflected off of objects and allows imaging them much like imaging with visible light.

I'm not entirely sure which type of system you're describing; if reptiles emit a modest glow, it's probably thermal IR. I'm pretty sure that technological "night vision" systems work with NIR emitters and detectors, and at those wavelengths, neither reptiles nor mammals emit at a significant level, any more that either species has a visible glow from its body heat.
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