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Old 09-11-2016, 09:38 PM   #1
VariousRen
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Default [Sorcery] Multiple Linked Innate Attacks and DR

I'm attempting to create a spell that fires multiple innate attacks of different damage types. The hope is that something in the mix will hurt opponents who might be resistant or immune to most.

Linked seems like the way to go, since it even specifies one roll can be used to represent multiple attacks. However, it doesn't make it clear if DR is only accounted for once or if it is applied to each attack separately.

Follow-up would be another possibility. Hit with innate attack (crushing), innate attack (corrosive) follows that up, then burning, and so on. Follow-up states that DR is ignored if the first attack penetrates, but doesn't state what happens if it doesn't fully go though DR. Do the follow up attacks go off at all? Do they have to try and overcome full DR again, or can they pick up where the carrier attack left off?

Some clarification for the issues above would be very helpful. Thanks in advance.
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Old 09-11-2016, 09:49 PM   #2
Christopher R. Rice
 
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Default Re: [Sorcery] Multiple Linked Innate Attacks and DR

Quote:
Originally Posted by VariousRen View Post
I'm attempting to create a spell that fires multiple innate attacks of different damage types. The hope is that something in the mix will hurt opponents who might be resistant or immune to most.

Linked seems like the way to go, since it even specifies one roll can be used to represent multiple attacks. However, it doesn't make it clear if DR is only accounted for once or if it is applied to each attack separately.
Linked attacks take DR into account for each attack.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VariousRen View Post
Follow-up would be another possibility. Hit with innate attack (crushing), innate attack (corrosive) follows that up, then burning, and so on. Follow-up states that DR is ignored if the first attack penetrates, but doesn't state what happens if it doesn't fully go though DR. Do the follow up attacks go off at all? Do they have to try and overcome full DR again, or can they pick up where the carrier attack left off?
Follow-Up only goes off if the main carrier attack penetrates DR. That's why it's a penetration modifier.
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Old 09-11-2016, 10:17 PM   #3
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Default Re: [Sorcery] Multiple Linked Innate Attacks and DR

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Originally Posted by Ghostdancer View Post
Linked attacks take DR into account for each attack.

Follow-Up only goes off if the main carrier attack penetrates DR. That's why it's a penetration modifier.
Hmm, that's kind of a bummer. Is there any way to avoid this effectively giving the attack an AD of 0.2 from the 5 different parts of the attack?
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Old 09-11-2016, 10:29 PM   #4
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Default Re: [Sorcery] Multiple Linked Innate Attacks and DR

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Originally Posted by VariousRen View Post
Hmm, that's kind of a bummer. Is there any way to avoid this effectively giving the attack an AD of 0.2 from the 5 different parts of the attack?
Let me ask you a counter-question: What exactly are you trying to accomplish?
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Old 09-11-2016, 10:40 PM   #5
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Default Re: [Sorcery] Multiple Linked Innate Attacks and DR

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Originally Posted by Ghostdancer View Post
Let me ask you a counter-question: What exactly are you trying to accomplish?
The goal is to create a spell that uses a bunch of different damage types in the hopes that something will hurt the enemy. Our group faces non-human creatures fairly often, and since we aren't the most knowledgeable characters we do most of our learning by doing. By doing damage across all the main damage types I can get some information about what it's resistant to and what it's vulnerable to. I was even thinking about making this explicit by adding a linked Detect(Injury) to the spell. Without figuring out details I was thinking of something like this:

Innate Attack (Crushing 1d) +
Innate Attack (Cutting 1d) +
Innate Attack (Burning 1d) +
Innate Attack (Toxic 1d) +
Innate Attack (Impaling 1d) +
Innate Attack (Corrosive 1d) +
Detect (Injury, only from damage this spell just did)

Against an enemy that is resistant to all but one type of damage, this does what I want: do a little bit of damage reliably on the first casting. Against a non-resistant enemy though, every damage type is going through DR separately. I end up paying for a 6d innate attack while probably doing little more than 1d or 2d of actual injury.
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Old 09-11-2016, 10:56 PM   #6
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Default Re: [Sorcery] Multiple Linked Innate Attacks and DR

That seems needlessly complicated. How about a Cosmic enhancement? All of those added up as alternate attacks cost about 70% more of the most expensive attack. If we add all of the damage types up for innate attack it's more like like 150% more (to cover adding such a modifier to the most expensive innate attack (either Fatigue or Corrosion). Add in the ability for the attack itself to figure out what is the "best" damage type (via a built-in Detect) and that cost seems fair.

That being the case, call it a +150% version of cosmic "Adaptive Damage" where your innate attack uses the best damage type against your target.
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Old 09-11-2016, 11:32 PM   #7
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Default Re: [Sorcery] Multiple Linked Innate Attacks and DR

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Originally Posted by Ghostdancer View Post
That seems needlessly complicated. How about a Cosmic enhancement? All of those added up as alternate attacks cost about 70% more of the most expensive attack. If we add all of the damage types up for innate attack it's more like like 150% more (to cover adding such a modifier to the most expensive innate attack (either Fatigue or Corrosion). Add in the ability for the attack itself to figure out what is the "best" damage type (via a built-in Detect) and that cost seems fair.

That being the case, call it a +150% version of cosmic "Adaptive Damage" where your innate attack uses the best damage type against your target.
Well, that would end up being +150% on each d6 which reduces the amount of damage I would do against a target that isn't resistant. I also don't really want the attack to "pick" the best damage type, just shotgun them out so next round I can switch to a spell more well suited to my target if raw damage won't do the job.

I'm actually a little surprised follow-up doesn't handle this. It seems strange that an explosive innate attack as follow up to a piercing one (an explosive bullet for example) wouldn't explode if it failed to penetrate DR.

Perhaps a modifier for follow-up that causes each attack to be applied in turn regardless of getting through DR, with a modifier based on the carriers ability to penetrate armour to handle abuse problems from cheap pi- attacks carrying imp attacks through armour.
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Old 09-11-2016, 11:42 PM   #8
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Default Re: [Sorcery] Multiple Linked Innate Attacks and DR

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Originally Posted by VariousRen View Post
Well, that would end up being +150% on each d6 which reduces the amount of damage I would do against a target that isn't resistant. I also don't really want the attack to "pick" the best damage type, just shotgun them out so next round I can switch to a spell more well suited to my target if raw damage won't do the job.
Ok, so it's not the DAMAGE you are going for. You're trying to find WEAKNESSES.

Dude, this is a straight up Detect with Analysis Only. Weakness is a 30-point category. Success would give you general information, critical success or success by five or more would give specific game-mechanical information.
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Old 09-11-2016, 11:57 PM   #9
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Default Re: [Sorcery] Multiple Linked Innate Attacks and DR

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Originally Posted by Ghostdancer View Post
Ok, so it's not the DAMAGE you are going for. You're trying to find WEAKNESSES.

Dude, this is a straight up Detect with Analysis Only. Weakness is a 30-point category. Success would give you general information, critical success or success by five or more would give specific game-mechanical information.
It's the mix of both that makes me want to actually have this spell over just a pile of crushing damage (which has a pretty good chance of doing something to most enemies). If a 6d blast of all the assorted damage flavours will do the job, no further spells required. If not and only 1d or 2d gets through, I get the details to switch out to a more specialized spell or share the info with my allies.

I guess it's just rubbing me the wrong way that this particular combination doesn't seem supported. I'm basically trying to buying Innate Attack (Pile of damage 6d, Immunity reduces to 1d instead) and by RAW that seems to end up being a +150% enhancement (Armour Divisor 5 is +150%, and mathematically works out perfectly for what I want. The only problem is my 6d of assorted damage now costs as much as 15d of crushing, and that doesn't seem like a fair trade)
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Old 09-12-2016, 12:10 AM   #10
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Default Re: [Sorcery] Multiple Linked Innate Attacks and DR

I still think you'd be better off with a Detect (maybe with Reflexive) and then an appropriate attack instead of mixing it together, but that's up to you of course. So I couldn't help you suss out the exact mechanics you're looking for.
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