[Powers] Triggering Alternate Form Upon "Death"

[the_matrix_walker]

Well, if they have the best medical care available, they should get extra healing from TL appropriate (to suspended animation) medical care then.

The whole suspended animation idea seems quite strange to me as stasis shouldn't allow healing I would think...

Since they do not benefit from even the recovery imparted by simple first aid, you may see why I thought Reciprocal Rest was as if "resting" and not "receiving super-science medical care"

I will simply use it my way as a house rule, as postmortem shapeshift is cheaper than Extra Life or Unkillable.

[Ze'Manel Cunha]

Originally Posted by the_matrix_walker

Well, if they have the best medical care available, they should get extra healing from TL appropriate (to suspended animation) medical care then.

That's where paying for limited regen/regrowth comes in, unless the damage is pretty mundane, without adding some type of healing all you're really getting is the ability to transport yourself to a hospital.

Originally Posted by the_matrix_walker

The whole suspended animation idea seems quite strange to me as stasis shouldn't allow healing I would think...

Since they do not benefit from even the recovery imparted by simple first aid, you may see why I thought Reciprocal Rest was as if "resting" and not "receiving super-science medical care"

Think of the medically induced coma, normal mundane healing takes place, but if you don't pay for some other type of enhanced healing you will need to get yourself to a hospital.

On point though, a common trope in shapeshifting has the body fixing itself at least somewhat during the shift, since after all the idea is often that the body knows the patterns it should be.

Originally Posted by the_matrix_walker

I will simply use it my way as a house rule, as postmortem shapeshift is cheaper than Extra Life or Unkillable.

Have you looked at the costs of a rapid shift with those levels of coupled enhancements? It ain't cheap...

[the_matrix_walker]

Originally Posted by Ze'Manel Cunha

That's where paying for limited regen/regrowth comes in, unless the damage is pretty mundane, without adding some type of healing all you're really getting is the ability to transport yourself to a hospital.

Who ever would need a hospital? If all potential issues are protected from, just heal at your normal rate.

Originally Posted by Ze'Manel Cunha

Think of the medically induced coma, normal mundane healing takes place, but if you don't pay for some other type of enhanced healing you will need to get yourself to a hospital.

Why?

Originally Posted by Ze'Manel Cunha

On point though, a common trope in shapeshifting has the body fixing itself at least somewhat during the shift, since after all the idea is often that the body knows the patterns it should be.

Sure, but that's obviously another power in the mix entirely.

Originally Posted by Ze'Manel Cunha

Have you looked at the costs of a rapid shift with those levels of coupled enhancements? It ain't cheap...

You don't need a rapid shift, the trigger takes care of that for you, no concentration required. With an extra life, your GM gets to say, you wash up 3 days later, and you loose 25 points, with this, you just get up as someone else for a few weeks. and you're good to go again.

[Ze'Manel Cunha]

Originally Posted by the_matrix_walker

Who ever would need a hospital? If all potential issues are protected from, just heal at your normal rate.


Why?

Because at a certain level of injury, healing at your normal rate means no significant healing takes place without surgery, you'll just be in suspended animation for the duration...

Originally Posted by the_matrix_walker

Sure, but that's obviously another power in the mix entirely.

Which is why when building certain Powers we need to layer multiple advantages together.

Originally Posted by the_matrix_walker

You don't need a rapid shift, the trigger takes care of that for you, no concentration required.

Point, though we do have to make that form the "native form", and not the form which is injured.

Originally Posted by the_matrix_walker

With an extra life, your GM gets to say, you wash up 3 days later, and you loose 25 points, with this, you just get up as someone else for a few weeks. and you're good to go again.

I can think of a 101 settings with shifters in them, I can't think of a single setting off the top of my head which featured extra lifes being used like you describe.

[Sunrunners_Fire]

Originally Posted by the_matrix_walker

You don't need a rapid shift, the trigger takes care of that for you, no concentration required. With an extra life, your GM gets to say, you wash up 3 days later, and you loose 25 points, with this, you just get up as someone else for a few weeks. and you're good to go again.

It takes 10 seconds to shift using Alternate Form. Your current template does not change (and you can do nothing while you are changing) until those 10 seconds are up. If you are relying on Uncontrollable Trigger (a limitation, mind) to keep you alive (having failed a death check) without using modifiers to turn Alternate Form into a reflexive free action? Your present form dies before you finish shifting to the alternate form.

Absent modifiers to the contrary. Uncontrollable Trigger doesn't give you +120% worth of enhancements for free. (Reduced Time 4, +80%; Reflexive, +40%) You have one second to do something (Dying Actions, GURPS Basic, pg 423) after you failed your death check, not 10.

Killing a werewolf in human form stops it from changing into its' wolf shape, even if it had started the change before you finished killing it.

[the_matrix_walker]

Originally Posted by Ze'Manel Cunha

Because at a certain level of injury, healing at your normal rate means no significant healing takes place without surgery, you'll just be in suspended animation for the duration...

Well, if Mortal Wounds can be recovered from, What type of injury cannot? Can you give an example of this?

Originally Posted by Ze'Manel Cunha

Which is why when building certain Powers we need to layer multiple advantages together.

Well, sure, but that's not in question

Originally Posted by Ze'Manel Cunha

I can think of a 101 settings with shifters in them, I can't think of a single setting off the top of my head which featured extra lifes being used like you describe.

Are you talking fictional settings or game settings?

I don't know of any in either that has shifters change at "death".

[the_matrix_walker]

Originally Posted by Sunrunners_Fire

It takes 10 seconds to shift using Alternate Form. Your current template does not change (and you can do nothing while you are changing) until those 10 seconds are up. If you are relying on Uncontrollable Trigger (a limitation, mind) to keep you alive (having failed a death check) without using modifiers to turn Alternate Form into a reflexive free action? Your present form dies before you finish shifting to the alternate form.

So what? You get 30 minutes between Mortal Wound rolls.

Originally Posted by Sunrunners_Fire

Absent modifiers to the contrary. Uncontrollable Trigger doesn't give you +120% worth of enhancements for free. (Reduced Time 4, +80%; Reflexive, +40%) You have one second to do something (Dying Actions, GURPS Basic, pg 423) after you failed your death check, not 10.

You're not "doing" anything, Che character is not taking an action. The trigger does it. It sill takes 10 seconds, but so what?

Originally Posted by Sunrunners_Fire

Killing a werewolf in human form stops it from changing into its' wolf shape, even if it had started the change before you finished killing it.

If it's taking a voluntary action, sure, but if it's being triggered by the moon and their only "mostly dead" it seems not to be a problem.

[Ze'Manel Cunha]

Originally Posted by the_matrix_walker

Well, if Mortal Wounds can be recovered from, What type of injury cannot? Can you give an example of this?

Think of any type of injury where someone wouldn't recover while in a medically induced coma.

Think of injury where permanent crippling, loped parts, etc., and other permanent damage has been done which requires surgery to heal from, that's where you'd want to layer other healing abilities.

Originally Posted by the_matrix_walker

Are you talking fictional settings or game settings?

I don't know of any in either that has shifters change at "death".

Both, I've run and played in multiple shifter campaigns, I've read numerous books where shifters changed at "death's door", which is basically the mostly dead point, I'm currently running a game where one of my players has this type of power.

I've never played in, nor ever used, a setting/campaign which featured Extra Life, and that's going back over 25* years playing GURPS and assorted other systems, but I can't even count the times I've run and/or played shifter type abilities.

*Geez, 1988 was 25 years ago, I need to go to away now...

[the_matrix_walker]

Originally Posted by Ze'Manel Cunha

Think of any type of injury where someone wouldn't recover while in a medically induced coma.

Not sure why you keep bringing up the coma... A medically induced coma may prevent screams of pain, or moving around and hurting yourself, but has no special ability to enhance healing or prevent deterioration unless it is from your own actions.

Originally Posted by Ze'Manel Cunha

Think of injury where permanent crippling, loped parts, etc., and other permanent damage has been done which requires surgery to heal from, that's where you'd want to layer other healing abilities.

So, you're not saying "you need to getto a hospital" you're saying that "If you are permanently crippled you need to get to the hospital." But that's not true... You roll to see if your crippling injury is lasting or permanent at the end of combat, not during, so if you shapeshift out of trouble, you never have to make that roll.

Originally Posted by Ze'Manel Cunha

Both, I've run and played in multiple shifter campaigns, I've read numerous books where shifters changed at "death's door", which is basically the mostly dead point, I'm currently running a game where one of my players has this type of power.

And you let him do this for under 30 points?

[Ze'Manel Cunha]

Originally Posted by the_matrix_walker

Not sure why you keep bringing up the coma... A medically induced coma may prevent screams of pain, or moving around and hurting yourself, but has no special ability to enhance healing or prevent deterioration unless it is from your own actions.

It's a baseline of how normal healing works, which is why I keep mentioning the need to add layered regen/healing to get the power to function the way we may need to.

Originally Posted by the_matrix_walker

So, you're not saying "you need to getto a hospital" you're saying that "If you are permanently crippled you need to get to the hospital." But that's not true... You roll to see if your crippling injury is lasting or permanent at the end of combat, not during, so if you shapeshift out of trouble, you never have to make that roll.

It'd be a pretty weird game if you only find out at the end of combat whether or not you'd had your limb loped off, and even weirder that ending combat somehow made that somehow not happen.

Originally Posted by the_matrix_walker

And you let him do this for under 30 points?

Coupled with layered regen/healing, it's one of the best ways of modeling that type of trope, and it's nowhere near as useful as Unkillable especially since combat in possibly ongoing and you can't shift back to your injured form.