Zhodani without Psi

[Malenfant]

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

But to be Zho, they must have some form of populace control and creepy uniformity.
How can that be done without invoking magic? That's the point of this thread, I believe, not why do it at all.

Yes, which is why I was pointing out several societies in earth's history that have had various degrees of controlling their populace and being creepily uniform, and they haven't needed any special powers to do it (North Korea in particular springs to mind). Judicious use of fear, terror, paranoia, and propaganda can accomplish that quite nicely on their own.

[Flyndaran]

Originally Posted by Malenfant

Yes, which is why I was pointing out several societies in earth's history that have had various degrees of controlling their populace and being creepily uniform, and they haven't needed any special powers to do it (North Korea in particular springs to mind). Judicious use of fear, terror, paranoia, and propaganda can accomplish that quite nicely on their own.

Wasn't part of the point also not to make them so obviously the bad guys? Iron-fisted dictatorships are kind of hard to justify as worthy of continued existence.

I like the idea of advanced pharmaceuticals. Distress and feelings of not being part of the wonderful society is a disorder and can be easily fixed with the right drugs.... and the horror is that it can. The same "dystopia" that many today fear the drug companies are pushing, but pushed to 11.

There was an episode of "Sliders" in which the hippies were counter culture rebels for refusing to take any psychoactive drugs.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by Malenfant

Yes, which is why I was pointing out several societies in earth's history that have had various degrees of controlling their populace and being creepily uniform, and they haven't needed any special powers to do it (North Korea in particular springs to mind). Judicious use of fear, terror, paranoia, and propaganda can accomplish that quite nicely on their own.

But that would turn the Zho into Space Nazis. The Zho aren't Space Nazis because their regime has some objective benefits rather than just negative differences.

That is the feature that needs to be retained:ambiguity. There's nothing to be said in favor of North Korea.

[jason taylor]

I suppose making them a Cyborg empire rather then a Psiocracy has it's advantages. Imperials would have just as much atavistic horror at the idea, would develop a fanatical prejudice against robotics etc.

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

Psi / mind magic isn't science of any sort. .

Sure it is. It took a lot of scientific investigation to establish it wasn't real.

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by Malenfant

The question in the OP asked is "what would the Zhodani be without supernatural psi?". I just took it further and asked why people were still trying to have them with any "psi-like abilities" at all (whether technological or otherwise) - why not just go the whole hog and have them without anything like that?

There are plenty of ways to control a populace without psychic powers after all.

I don't think we "need" them to have psionics at all. As you point out, they'ree an interesting enough race without them - just in having a civilisation where freedom of thought is so controlled yet apparently so harmonious is a good scifi issue to explore.

Except for the minor problem that there's no way to produce that situation without the psi or some other fantastic technology.

[Flyndaran]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

Sure it is. It took a lot of scientific investigation to establish it wasn't real.

Using that broad of a definition would make everything, including dragons and magic spells, science. That's a bit silly, isn't it?

[Malenfant]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

Except for the minor problem that there's no way to produce that situation without the psi or some other fantastic technology.

Again, look at North Korea.

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

Using that broad of a definition would make everything, including dragons and magic spells, science. That's a bit silly, isn't it?

No, the same kind of scientific investigation never occurred for those things.

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by Malenfant

Again, look at North Korea.

I look at North Korea and I am unimpressed. North Korea isn't harmonious. It's just overbearing, heavy handed tyranny. Also it can't even feed itself.