[Powers] Triggering Alternate Form Upon "Death"

[the_matrix_walker]

Originally Posted by Ze'Manel Cunha

It's a baseline of how normal healing works, which is why I keep mentioning the need to add layered regen/healing to get the power to function the way we may need to.

A medically induced coma is not the way "Normal healing" works.

Originally Posted by Ze'Manel Cunha

It'd be a pretty weird game if you only find out at the end of combat whether or not you'd had your limb loped off, and even weirder that ending combat somehow made that somehow not happen.

I said crippling, not severed. So what you're saying is "If you've got something cut off, you still have to go to the hospital" lol. Which I don't see as relevant.

Originally Posted by Ze'Manel Cunha

Coupled with layered regen/healing, it's one of the best ways of modeling that type of trope, and it's nowhere near as useful as Unkillable especially since combat in possibly ongoing and you can't shift back to your injured form.

In what way is that less useful? The Unkilliable guy is out of the fight, and possibly taken prisoner or finished off (which they can be with Unkillable 1) and the shapeshifter can get back up and get back into the action unharmed.

[JCurwen3]

Wondering if there are any thoughts on these...

Originally Posted by JCurwen3

I'm unsure which of these traits need to be at the character level (present in all forms), and which are just on the base form.

If the base form has the Unkillable Only Regen but the Alternate Form doesn't, does the base form heal to positive HP at 10 HP/sec, and then resume normal human healing, or does it heal at the same rate as whatever the Alternate Form heals at while it is active? As an example, if a character has a base racial template with normal human healing, and an AF that has Regen, and the AF has Reciprocal Rest, do the two forms heal at their own respective rates (I suspect so), or at the active form's rate?

Does Unkillable 2 need to be at the character level or just on the base form? I want the character to really die when they die in their transformed "upon death" form. They don't switch back to the base form upon death, then having Unkillable 2 and still not dying, right?

I'd want a penalized Will roll to leave the Alternate Form early. That's easy enough. Otherwise, staying in the form "costs fatigue", which I'll do via having Weakness (Fatigue Only) on that form. However, I'm not sure what the rarity of "being in upon-death mode" is for Weakness... Very Common?

Finally, I'd want the Unkillable 2 to fail (they can die) in the base form an hour or so after reverting back to it. That would be "Achilles' Heel, Not within an hour of switching back to base form". Not sure what the rarity of that is... I'd think Rare or Occasional, unless I'm downplaying it. This for a player and I'd rather not shaft them.

[the_matrix_walker]

1: Each form heals at it's own rate.

2: Only the original form needs unkillable, as that is the form that won't die.

3: A penalized Will roll to leave the form early sounds like a Nuisance Effect to me.

4: For this I'd use "Takes Recharge, 1 Hour"

[Ze'Manel Cunha]

Originally Posted by JCurwen3

Does Unkillable 2 need to be at the character level or just on the base form? I want the character to really die when they die in their transformed "upon death" form. They don't switch back to the base form upon death, then having Unkillable 2 and still not dying, right?

Originally Posted by the_matrix_walker

2: Only the original form needs unkillable, as that is the form that won't die.

The way the build we're suggesting works, due to the effects of the trigger shift, and that you don't switch back to the base form upon death, means that the form you switch into after failing the HT is the true base form.

In other words, if he's say a human who gains a power which turns him into a reincarnation of Mercury upon failing a HT roll, he's truly Mercury and when/if he dies as Mercury he's dead and never turns back to the human he used to be. This is pretty much why I personally don't consider Unkillable to be a required part of the build, since the character is normally killable.


I think there was a version of Thor who had a human form which was pretty normal and easily killable, but killing it would just trigger the base Thor form to emerge alive and thundering, all things considered I wouldn't call that Unkillable, Extra Life, or Duplication, but I suppose I could be talked into adding another enhancement to the Morph, though again I'm not sure it really needs it...

[the_matrix_walker]

Originally Posted by Ze'Manel Cunha

The way the build we're suggesting works, due to the effects of the trigger shift, and that you don't switch back to the base form upon death, means that the form you switch into after failing the HT is the true base form.

That's certainly not the way I'm suggesting it works. That would have all sorts of connotations, like if there is a power modifier and alternate means of forcing you into your "Normal Form" you could be turned into your berserk monster form at unusual times.

Originally Posted by Ze'Manel Cunha

In other words, if he's say a human who gains a power which turns him into a reincarnation of Mercury upon failing a HT roll, he's truly Mercury and when/if he dies as Mercury he's dead and never turns back to the human he used to be. This is pretty much why I personally don't consider Unkillable to be a required part of the build, since the character is normally killable.

Other than "instant Kill" type effects or being reduced to -5xHP at least I assume.

Originally Posted by Ze'Manel Cunha

I think there was a version of Thor who had a human form which was pretty normal and easily killable, but killing it would just trigger the base Thor form to emerge alive and thundering, all things considered I wouldn't call that Unkillable, Extra Life, or Duplication, but I suppose I could be talked into adding another enhancement to the Morph, though again I'm not sure it really needs it...

I don't remember that version of Thor, but I certainly haven't read all of every run... but that seems kind of pointless.. the mortal form was to teach humility, if it worked as you suggest, he would just kill himself and be THOR again, in effect, sacrificing Donald Blake to himself or his father.

[Ze'Manel Cunha]

Originally Posted by the_matrix_walker

I don't remember that version of Thor, but I certainly haven't read all of every run... but that seems kind of pointless.. the mortal form was to teach humility, if it worked as you suggest, he would just kill himself and be THOR again, in effect, sacrificing Donald Blake to himself or his father.

It's not an uncommon trope in fiction and even in historical religious fantasy, having a mortal form and an immortal form such that when the mortal form is killed the character once again becomes incapable of empathizing with the mortals, which often results in the immortal leaving the mortal plane to return to Asgard or assorted other planes.

In that situation it's almost as a version of morph with single instance Duplication where the Duplicate has a different form and can die.