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Old 08-12-2009, 01:49 PM   #31
Verjigorm
 
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Default Re: [Martial Arts] Getting the Wind Knocked Out of You

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Then you didn't "get the wind knocked out of you"—it's when your diaphragm stops working due to a spasm, and you literally suffocate for a few seconds; no wheezing or gasping is possible. It also doesn't require any actual damage be done—every instance where it's happened to me, there has been no actual "injury," just the right force in just the right spot.
No injury? No persisting soreness? No tender muscles, no bruises?
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Old 08-12-2009, 01:59 PM   #32
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Default Re: [Martial Arts] Getting the Wind Knocked Out of You

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But it didn't have me gasping and wheezing for breath.
What do you think "getting the wind knocked out of you" means?
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Old 08-12-2009, 02:04 PM   #33
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Default Re: [Martial Arts] Getting the Wind Knocked Out of You

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No injury? No persisting soreness? No tender muscles, no bruises?
Nope. Of the two times I can recall (there's one other that I can't), once was when I was playing football in 9th grade and hit a guy twice my size, and the other was when I was in the Army, in Iraq, and one of my squad-mates was screwing around and side-kicked me in the ribs while I was wearing a flak jacket. Neither instance caused any "further" effects.
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Old 08-12-2009, 02:04 PM   #34
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Default Re: [Martial Arts] Getting the Wind Knocked Out of You

Ask a physician: Being hit hard enough to interrupt your breathing causes real injury. The body blow that winds you but doesn't injure you is as mythical as the head blow that causes unconsciousness but doesn't injure you. When functions such as breathing, blood flow, and brain activity go down due to physical trauma, you've been injured. Let's not perpetuate the myth that this stuff is fun and games. That's the stuff of Jackass and schoolyard fight videos on YouTube.

Even in light of that, I stand by my earlier statement. Most fit people can operate just fine on the oxygen in their blood for the few seconds it takes to recover from a momentary bout of forced breath-holding. What stuns them is primarily the mental disorientation caused by switching from breathing to not-breathing without preparation. When they're expecting that and/or charged on adrenaline, they react very differently.
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Old 08-13-2009, 10:58 AM   #35
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Default Re: [Martial Arts] Getting the Wind Knocked Out of You

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Ask a physician: Being hit hard enough to interrupt your breathing causes real injury. The body blow that winds you but doesn't injure you is as mythical as the head blow that causes unconsciousness but doesn't injure you. When functions such as breathing, blood flow, and brain activity go down due to physical trauma, you've been injured. Let's not perpetuate the myth that this stuff is fun and games. That's the stuff of Jackass and schoolyard fight videos on YouTube.

Even in light of that, I stand by my earlier statement. Most fit people can operate just fine on the oxygen in their blood for the few seconds it takes to recover from a momentary bout of forced breath-holding. What stuns them is primarily the mental disorientation caused by switching from breathing to not-breathing without preparation. When they're expecting that and/or charged on adrenaline, they react very differently.
Do you have an opinion as to whether the Pressure Points suffocation effect is appropriate for this situation? To my eyes, it seems tailor-made for "getting the wind knocked out of you." (Ignoring, for the moment, that Pressure Points is considered cinematic and hard.)
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Old 08-22-2009, 01:19 AM   #36
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Default Re: [Martial Arts] Getting the Wind Knocked Out of You

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Even in light of that, I stand by my earlier statement. Most fit people can operate just fine on the oxygen in their blood for the few seconds it takes to recover from a momentary bout of forced breath-holding. What stuns them is primarily the mental disorientation caused by switching from breathing to not-breathing without preparation. When they're expecting that and/or charged on adrenaline, they react very differently.
Late to the party but...

I've been knocked unconscious twice in my life from such blows. In the first case it was during a school-yard fist-fight, and I was still fighting for 5-10s before everything went dark and my knees went out from under me. My friends said I seemed to have just not noticed getting hit, and then suddenly I just folded up. I don't recall any lasting injury from this, though I was a bit sore for the rest of the day.

The second time, I fell off a rather large horse, onto a rock (the only one in the field, I swear), and the impact combined with hitting the rock with my torso (right side, just about the pelvis) knock the wind right out of me. I managed to stand up and start after the horse (with, I must admit, the intention of braining it with the rock), and then I ran out of oxygen and fainted. My sister, who was there (and a much better rider than I ever was) said I lay there twitching and half-gasping for about 30s before regaining conciousness. I got up and managed to ride the several miles back home, but it was two weeks before the bruising (from belly-button to spine, from hop to ribs on my right side) faded and the stiffness went.

So, I'd say there's always some damage, though it could be from an exactly 0-point blow, and the victim may or may not be stunned, and might, if they're exerting themselves (like in a fight), go unconscious before they recover enough to breathe again.
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Old 08-22-2009, 01:51 AM   #37
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Default Re: [Martial Arts] Getting the Wind Knocked Out of You

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Late to the party but...

I've been knocked unconscious twice in my life from such blows. In the first case it was during a school-yard fist-fight, and I was still fighting for 5-10s before everything went dark and my knees went out from under me. My friends said I seemed to have just not noticed getting hit, and then suddenly I just folded up. I don't recall any lasting injury from this, though I was a bit sore for the rest of the day.
This sounds like you used too much Extra Effort. :)
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Old 08-22-2009, 02:08 AM   #38
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Default Re: [Martial Arts] Getting the Wind Knocked Out of You

By my point of view, suffering this requires the victim be hit with Crushing damage specifically to the abdomen, anything that's blunt (like a horribly powerful punch).

Then the target must roll HT or Will VS stunning or be forced on his knees (critfail - fall over) and get no roll for recovery until the stun wears off. Incidentally the target will be prohibited from speaking coherently and, even once this wears off, he's at an unfairly crippling painful disadvantage (that only pain relievers can suppress. I'm talking spells, techniques etc)
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Old 08-22-2009, 02:18 AM   #39
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Default Re: [Martial Arts] Getting the Wind Knocked Out of You

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By my point of view, suffering this requires the victim be hit with Crushing damage specifically to the abdomen, anything that's blunt (like a horribly powerful punch).

Then the target must roll HT or Will VS stunning or be forced on his knees (critfail - fall over) and get no roll for recovery until the stun wears off. Incidentally the target will be prohibited from speaking coherently and, even once this wears off, he's at an unfairly crippling painful disadvantage (that only pain relievers can suppress. I'm talking spells, techniques etc)
Seems too harsh. I think this sort of thing is already covered by the rules for the Vitals. *shrug*
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Old 08-23-2009, 09:01 PM   #40
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Default Re: [Martial Arts] Getting the Wind Knocked Out of You

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...In the first case it was during a school-yard fist-fight, and I was still fighting for 5-10s before everything went dark and my knees went out from under me. My friends said I seemed to have just not noticed getting hit, and then suddenly I just folded up. I don't recall any lasting injury from this, though I was a bit sore for the rest of the day.

The second time...the impact combined with hitting the rock with my torso...knock[ed] the wind right out of me. I managed to stand up and start after the horse...and then I ran out of oxygen and fainted...I lay there twitching and half-gasping for about 30s before regaining conciousness.
Still sounds like suffocation to me ;)
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