Relative Bulk for Battle Rifles - Page 5

Kromm · 02-02-2010, 02:22 PM

Note also the profiles, by the way: M14 vs. FAL (specifically the SLR). The FAL is cursed with a protruding carrying handle and a projecting full pistol grip stock; the M14 has smoother lines and a semi-pistol grip stock. This alone is probably enough to add -1 to Bulk . . . More stuff to snag the environment in close quarters and your kit on the run, more bits poking out to foul up concealment. Generally, fewer protrusions = better Bulk.

Kalzazz · 02-02-2010, 02:24 PM

Do the carrying handle and pistol grip stock add anything useful in GURPS terms?

sir_pudding · 02-02-2010, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kromm

Note also the profiles, by the way: M14. FAL (specifically the SLR). The FAL is cursed with a protruding carrying handle and a projecting full pistol grip stock; the M14 has smoother lines and a semi-pistol grip stock. This alone is probably enough to add -1 to Bulk: More stuff to snag the environment in close quarters and your kit on the run. Generally, fewer protrusions = better Bulk.

Yes the SLR's infamous carrying handle is probably worth a penalty based on "gripe" factor alone.

Kromm · 02-02-2010, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Icelander

Would it be reasonable to say that the FN FAL/SLR is a famously rugged weapon (HT p. 80)?

I'd give Hans the final call, but based on what I've heard from Canadian servicemen, it's certainly more rugged than the C7 (M16).

Icelander · 02-02-2010, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kromm

I'd give Hans the final call, but based on what I've heard from Canadian servicement, it's certainly more rugged than the C7 (M16).

What I've heard from Australian ones leads me to believe that there is a world of difference between it and the Steyr, too.

sir_pudding · 02-02-2010, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kromm

it's certainly more rugged than the C7 (M16).

Isn't the C7 basically an M16A1, though? Almost anything is more rugged.

Kromm · 02-02-2010, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kalzazz

Do the carrying handle and pistol grip stock add anything useful in GURPS terms?

The handle makes it easier to carry around one-handed. Give users who try to carry a weapon one-handed with the hand wrapped around a semi-pistol grip stock for more than 10 minutes a -1 to DX with that hand for, say, 10 minutes after they set it down. Like 1 FP for bad ergonomics, but affecting hand DX instead of FP. Handles avoid this. Of course, so do slings and using two hands, so I doubt it'll matter much. The grip is generally a matter of personal preference; I'd be hesitant to assign game benefits.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Icelander

What I've heard from Australian ones leads me to believe that there is a world of difference between it and the Steyr, too.

Usually, I've heard the FAL's durability spoken of in terms of using it to hammer tent pegs and brain enemies. I'm not sure how slime-resistant it is, but it's apparently a pretty decent blunt instrument.

Kromm · 02-02-2010, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

Isn't the C7 basically an M16A1, though? Almost anything is more rugged.

More of a bastard A1/A2, really. It has a heavier barrel assembly than the A1, though.

Icelander · 02-02-2010, 02:38 PM

What does one need to do with a G3KA4 to get it down to Bulk -4*?

It's already as short as most carbines of that Bulk, so it wouldn't need to be shorter.

The weight, depending on source, looks to be about 2-3 lbs. heavier than guns that hit Bulk -4*. Would getting a lighter aftermarket stock and using aluminium magazines help Bulk?

Kalzazz · 02-02-2010, 03:03 PM

How long does it take to ready a rifle that is being carried by the carrying handle, or say a rifle is carried tucked under the arm the carrying hand holding the slide (or whatever the part is that isnt the slide on a non slide action rifle, but is the area that frequently the left hand goes when shooting)

I have experimentally confirmed that trying to carry around the rifle by its semi pistol grip is not a fun thing to do, unless its propped against the shoulder and reversed. Also I definitely cant aim it one handed and can barely even hold it out pointed in vaguely some direction, but doing so it is wobbly and also the scope is way to far away to aim through (I am notably not about to see if I can actually fire it like this, I have horrible visions of Bad Things resulting)

02-02-2010, 02:22 PM	#41
Kromm *GURPS* Line Editor Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Montréal, Québec	Re: Relative Bulk for Battle Rifles Note also the profiles, by the way: M14 vs. FAL (specifically the SLR). The FAL is cursed with a protruding carrying handle and a projecting full pistol grip stock; the M14 has smoother lines and a semi-pistol grip stock. This alone is probably enough to add -1 to Bulk . . . More stuff to snag the environment in close quarters and your kit on the run, more bits poking out to foul up concealment. Generally, fewer protrusions = better Bulk. __________________ Sean "Dr. Kromm" Punch <kromm@sjgames.com> *GURPS* Line Editor, Steve Jackson Games My DreamWidth [Just *GURPS* News]

02-02-2010, 02:24 PM	#42
Kalzazz Join Date: Feb 2009	Re: Relative Bulk for Battle Rifles Do the carrying handle and pistol grip stock add anything useful in GURPS terms?

02-02-2010, 02:38 PM	#49
Icelander Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Iceland*	Re: Relative Bulk for Battle Rifles What does one need to do with a G3KA4 to get it down to Bulk -4? It's already as short as most carbines of that Bulk, so it wouldn't need to be shorter. The weight, depending on source, looks to be about 2-3 lbs. heavier than guns that hit Bulk -4. Would getting a lighter aftermarket stock and using aluminium magazines help Bulk? __________________ Za uspiekh nashevo beznadiozhnovo diela!

02-02-2010, 03:03 PM	#50
Kalzazz Join Date: Feb 2009	Re: Relative Bulk for Battle Rifles How long does it take to ready a rifle that is being carried by the carrying handle, or say a rifle is carried tucked under the arm the carrying hand holding the slide (or whatever the part is that isnt the slide on a non slide action rifle, but is the area that frequently the left hand goes when shooting) I have experimentally confirmed that trying to carry around the rifle by its semi pistol grip is not a fun thing to do, unless its propped against the shoulder and reversed. Also I definitely cant aim it one handed and can barely even hold it out pointed in vaguely some direction, but doing so it is wobbly and also the scope is way to far away to aim through (I am notably not about to see if I can actually fire it like this, I have horrible visions of Bad Things resulting)